I am an Islamophobe. If you are not, you might not be a moral person.

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Science Fan
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Re: I am an Islamophobe. If you are not, you might not be a moral person.

Post by Science Fan »

Why are Christians surprised atheists aren't joining in to support Christianity? Christianity, after all, demonizes atheists. "Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?" (2 Corinthians 6:14). This passage forbids a Christian from marrying an atheist. Not to mention, key public Christians often demonize atheists. Dinesh D'Souza: "Atheism is the opiate of the morally corrupt...." There are also many public doctrines from Christian churches stating that atheists are immoral and should be avoided.

Did it ever occur to Christians that atheists may not care to support Christians who demonize them?
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Immanuel Can
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Re: I am an Islamophobe. If you are not, you might not be a moral person.

Post by Immanuel Can »

Science Fan wrote: Sun Jun 11, 2017 5:26 pm Did it ever occur to Christians that atheists may not care to support Christians...?
I think you're a bit confused here, SF, but I understand why. If you read the earlier posts, you'll see that GIA calls himself a "Christian Gnostic," and you might think that makes him some sort of Christian.

But he's not a Christian at all -- at least, not by any definition the word will bear. For you cannot worship or deify yourself, and justifiable be called a "Christian" in any sense. Christ-worship is, by definition, not self-worship.

Now, it's GIA who wishes to call Atheists to his cause, not I. On the contrary, I was just suggesting to GIA that because he regards himself as a god, he's unlikely to garner any sympathy from the Atheists he claims are on his side.

Hope that clears it up.

So yes, it occurs to Christians all the time. In fact, it's too obvious to mention. But it hasn't occurred to GIA, apparently.
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Greatest I am
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Re: I am an Islamophobe. If you are not, you might not be a moral person.

Post by Greatest I am »

Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Jun 11, 2017 3:47 pm
It would have to be. You declared that only people of your kind deserve "freedom of religion."


This is a lie. Get the quote.
Well, you can be a goat if you wish. But if you had really read the Bible, you'd know what happens to the metaphorical "goats." :shock: (Matt. 25:46)
Yes. Jesus, a goat to the powers that be was killed just as most Gnostic Christians were.

You seem to think that because we are/were the minority that we were wrong just because we were the minority. There is a word for that, and you might remember that the majority believe in some guy in the sky when Jesus said that we were the temples of God and that that makes God a human.

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DL
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Immanuel Can
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Re: I am an Islamophobe. If you are not, you might not be a moral person.

Post by Immanuel Can »

Greatest I am wrote: Sun Jun 11, 2017 7:01 pm You seem to think...
Whenever anybody says this, I know that they are about to say something preposterous. The phrase is invariably followed by some outrageous hyperbole, followed up with a posture of horrified disbelief -- positioning the presumed "thinker" of the thought in question as believing something nobody would ever believe, and the objector as the king of rationality. :wink:
...that because we are/were the minority that we were wrong just because we were the minority.
There it is! Bingo. 8)
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Greatest I am
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Re: I am an Islamophobe. If you are not, you might not be a moral person.

Post by Greatest I am »

Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Jun 11, 2017 9:50 pm
Greatest I am wrote: Sun Jun 11, 2017 7:01 pm You seem to think...
Whenever anybody says this, I know that they are about to say something preposterous. The phrase is invariably followed by some outrageous hyperbole, followed up with a posture of horrified disbelief -- positioning the presumed "thinker" of the thought in question as believing something nobody would ever believe, and the objector as the king of rationality. :wink:
Possibly, but since you deflected instead of confirming or denying, it seems that I hit a nerve.

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DL
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Immanuel Can
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Re: I am an Islamophobe. If you are not, you might not be a moral person.

Post by Immanuel Can »

Greatest I am wrote: Sun Jun 11, 2017 10:00 pm Possibly, but since you deflected instead of confirming or denying, it seems that I hit a nerve.
Oy vey. :roll:

Y'know, you might want to give up trying to read people's minds by analyzing text in posts...If this is any example, then it's not working for you.
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Greatest I am
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Re: I am an Islamophobe. If you are not, you might not be a moral person.

Post by Greatest I am »

Thanks for the chat.

Regards
DL
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Seleucus
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Re: I am an Islamophobe. If you are not, you might not be a moral person.

Post by Seleucus »

Greatest I am wrote: Sun Jun 11, 2017 3:19 pm
Seleucus wrote: Sun Jun 11, 2017 3:23 am
Greatest I am wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2017 2:33 pmYou have nothing that would do the right thing I terms of judgements of the Muslim ideology.
Can you lay out your concrete action proposal.
Religions are given respect they do not deserve.

Governments should convene a conference to analyse all the religions and declare which they think more worthy and only support the worthiest.

Over time the populations will be able to analyse what such a commission would find and hopefully act on it.

We cannot rid ourselves of religions. We can only hope to reform the worst, which today is Islam.

The war needs to be a war of words and ideologies, not bodies.

Regards
DL
You're suggesting a government commission and some kind of regulation or at least advisory as there is with food or cigarettes, or published materials? Like the Quran should have a black box warning on it and sold only to over 18s?

I'm seriously asking, not making a joke.

I agree there is a difference between Zen, Buddhism, Taoism, and Christianity which are based on phenomenological introspection. By contrast Judaism and Islam are based on supposed prophets and special communications from "God". And Hinduism, its political character that is, seems to be based on supposed facility of mythological stories.

Another point is also that Islam is not a home-grown religion in the West exactly. It is fueled by foreign influence. Large swaths of the developing world are sliding, if not plunging, into Islamic dictatorship. This could become a serious threat to civilization, not only just dangerous minorities inside Western countries.
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Seleucus
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Re: I am an Islamophobe. If you are not, you might not be a moral person.

Post by Seleucus »

Science Fan wrote: Sun Jun 11, 2017 5:26 pmWhy are Christians surprised atheists aren't joining in to support Christianity? Christianity, after all, demonizes atheists.
Except for Christian atheists. Zizek for instance finds there to be a nucleus of atheism at the heart of Catholic belief; in Islam also there are the ideas of Al Razi. The majority of protestant church goers in Holland, according to the research of Meester and Dekker, identify as atheist, and about a quarter of Dutch Catholics.
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Seleucus
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Re: I am an Islamophobe. If you are not, you might not be a moral person.

Post by Seleucus »

Australia has been towing back refugee ships and interning 100% of migrants on South Pacific Islands and Papua for several years.
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Greatest I am
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Re: I am an Islamophobe. If you are not, you might not be a moral person.

Post by Greatest I am »

Seleucus wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:40 am
Greatest I am wrote: Sun Jun 11, 2017 3:19 pm
Seleucus wrote: Sun Jun 11, 2017 3:23 am
Can you lay out your concrete action proposal.
Religions are given respect they do not deserve.

Governments should convene a conference to analyse all the religions and declare which they think more worthy and only support the worthiest.

Over time the populations will be able to analyse what such a commission would find and hopefully act on it.

We cannot rid ourselves of religions. We can only hope to reform the worst, which today is Islam.

The war needs to be a war of words and ideologies, not bodies.

Regards
DL
You're suggesting a government commission and some kind of regulation or at least advisory as there is with food or cigarettes, or published materials? Like the Quran should have a black box warning on it and sold only to over 18s?

I'm seriously asking, not making a joke.

I agree there is a difference between Zen, Buddhism, Taoism, and Christianity which are based on phenomenological introspection. By contrast Judaism and Islam are based on supposed prophets and special communications from "God". And Hinduism, its political character that is, seems to be based on supposed facility of mythological stories.

Another point is also that Islam is not a home-grown religion in the West exactly. It is fueled by foreign influence. Large swaths of the developing world are sliding, if not plunging, into Islamic dictatorship. This could become a serious threat to civilization, not only just dangerous minorities inside Western countries.
I hear and agree on the danger.

You and I could say that all day and no one would listen or care, but if your government had a legal/moral tribunal to speak the truth of religions, then the desired impact would come to pass.

Governments must stop respecting ideologies that do not deserve respect, or your tax dollars that pay the shortfall their exemptions create.

The U.S. government for instance moved against Koresh and the Branch Dividians when they recognized the immorality of that religion and must not fear being just as honest with Islam and Christianity even though they has kissed their butt to date.

A slave holding Islam has to be denounced as well as all other intolerant, homophobic and misogynous religions like Christianity.

Governments are elected to guide the population, not throw it to religious wolves in sheep's clothing.

Religions are basically fraud and should be treated as the con games by lying priests, preachers and imams that they are.

Regards
DL
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Immanuel Can
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Re: I am an Islamophobe. If you are not, you might not be a moral person.

Post by Immanuel Can »

Some interesting quotations from a recent Telegraph interview with Richard Dawkins:

[Dawkins on Islam;] "If you look at the actual impact that different religions have on the world it's quite apparent that at present the most evil religion in the world has to be Islam... [The] regressive left turns treacherous, blind eye on misogyny & homophobia because they absurdly think Islam must be 'respected' as a 'race'."

[Dawkins on Christianity: it's an] "important part of our culture to know about the Bible. After all so much of English literature has allusions to the Bible, if you look up the Oxford English Dictionary you find something like the same number of quotations from the Bible as from Shakespeare...I would not abolish religious education, I think I would substitute it for comparative religion and Biblical history and religious history. Comparative religion is very valuable partly because the child learns that there are lots of different religions not just the one they were brought up with. They learn they are all different and they can't all be right, so maybe none of them are right. Critical thinking is what we need."

[He continues] "Christianity may actually be our best defense against aberrant forms of religion that threaten the world. There are no Christians, as far as I know, blowing up buildings. I am not aware of any Christian suicide bombers...I am not aware of any major Christian denomination that believes the penalty for apostasy is death."


Comments?
uwot
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Re: I am an Islamophobe. If you are not, you might not be a moral person.

Post by uwot »

Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2017 4:37 amComments?
Plenty, but why invite them, given that you have the hubris to appoint yourself judge and jury of the fate of our souls? Isn't that your god's job?
Anyway: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/wom ... 02687d0047 Comments?
Belinda
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Re: I am an Islamophobe. If you are not, you might not be a moral person.

Post by Belinda »

Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2017 4:37 am Some interesting quotations from a recent Telegraph interview with Richard Dawkins:

[Dawkins on Islam;] "If you look at the actual impact that different religions have on the world it's quite apparent that at present the most evil religion in the world has to be Islam... [The] regressive left turns treacherous, blind eye on misogyny & homophobia because they absurdly think Islam must be 'respected' as a 'race'."

[Dawkins on Christianity: it's an] "important part of our culture to know about the Bible. After all so much of English literature has allusions to the Bible, if you look up the Oxford English Dictionary you find something like the same number of quotations from the Bible as from Shakespeare...I would not abolish religious education, I think I would substitute it for comparative religion and Biblical history and religious history. Comparative religion is very valuable partly because the child learns that there are lots of different religions not just the one they were brought up with. They learn they are all different and they can't all be right, so maybe none of them are right. Critical thinking is what we need."

[He continues] "Christianity may actually be our best defense against aberrant forms of religion that threaten the world. There are no Christians, as far as I know, blowing up buildings. I am not aware of any Christian suicide bombers...I am not aware of any major Christian denomination that believes the penalty for apostasy is death."


Comments?

The Telegraph is a right-wing paper owned by Rupert Murdoch , so you are unlikely to source free journalism there.My advice would be to be careful of who you get your opinions from.

I do agree that Christianity, and The Bible have merit. Islam has merit. It seems to be be the case that those people who actually attend churches and mosques form the nucleus and the body of helpers in emergencies that bring people together in common humanity.
Belinda
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Re: I am an Islamophobe. If you are not, you might not be a moral person.

Post by Belinda »

True, atheists and Humanists do of course join with the religionists in communal efforts to aid the stricken, however the churches and mosques are buildings that are of material use and are also centres at which communities regularly congregate.

I don't think the present time is right for Islam-bashing or for writing league tables of religions.
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