Good Friday

[Dontaskme]

Pain is not intelligent. Your use of English is aimed at mystification. Again! There is no possible doubt that pain is felt by the subject of the pain experience as you very well know.

Why is knowing God deemed to be mystification? It's not a mystery to know you exist, and that all is oneness. Everybody can know it, because they are it.


So, I'll repeat again for the umpteenth time.

There is no ''separate self'' that feels pain. It is EVERYTHING feeling pain. Everything is Awareness.

The Awareness of pain in 'me' is the same Awareness of pain in 'you'. Can the awareness of pain be separate from the pain felt? ..
No it can't..the feeler-feeling-felt are one in the same moment...there is no other feeler feeling felt. Unless there are Multiple Awarenesses?

You can't feel my pain and I can't feel your pain, because only Awareness feels pain. And there is only One Awareness. Awareness knows pain. But the Awareness cannot be known...because there is ONLY AWARENESS... Pain is One with the knowing. Awareness is the knowing that cannot be known.

There are multiple types of pain appearing and disappearing....but Awareness of the pain is Unitary / Universal...it is EVERYWHERE AND EVERYTHING. Awareness does not appear or disappear.

You are the Awareness of pain not the pain. It's no ones pain.

And pain is very much intelligent - if there was no pain, the body would not be triggered into healing itself and would die. So pain is very positive, and not to be rejected. Intelligence knows pain is going to come and go leaving the Awareness of it totally unscathed.

So what is there to suffer? Awareness takes it all without being harmed.

The above words were my own words. Well, not mine exactly, but just vibratory sounds coming from my vocal cords as they rub together causing sound to emerge from them interpreted as words with meaning, known by awareness which is known but unknowable to another. In other words, there is no awareness because there is no other than awareness.



.

[Dontaskme]

Dontaskme wrote:

The tree cannot exist without a mind to vision it.

Harbal replied:

No, the impression of the tree in a particular mind cannot exist without that particular mind to vision it.

Dontaskme wrote:

A tree is a perfect example as evidenced in it's appearance of a creator mind. note the word appearance is just another meaning for impression

Harbal wrote:

No it isn't. A tree is not evidence of a "creator mind", whatever that is.

Harbal I think you should look in the mirror before accusing others of talking in an obscure manner. If you can't meet on the meta level, stop trying to pretend you can and leave the subject to the masters of their knowledge.



To summarize what's actually really being discussed here...There is no tree separate from the minds impression. So the tree is not actually real is it? It's an imagined tree, it's an imagined creation appearing out of nowhere here now.

And that my friend is what's known by no one as a ''creator mind''

[Harbal]

Harbal I think you should look in the mirror before accusing others of talking in an obscure manner. If you can't meet on the meta level, stop trying to pretend you can and leave the subject to the masters of their knowledge.

It's all yours and you're more than welcome to it.

[Dontaskme]

Where is the evidence of your self existence ?

The attention immediately projects something outside of you to an object whether that be another person or whatever.

That projected other is coming from YOU...it''s not out there outside of you. But it's the only way you can exist via a projected image of yourself.

All the people and things that you assume to be outside of you are doing same..they too are projecting their existence of themselves by the same method.

Awareness is in one place only. It is perfectly still and does not move or change. Projected images of and in Awareness are multiple and changing like a kaleidoscope appearing as every size shape and form colour and taste as illusory manifestations of this one Light/Awareness.

Raw Truth...that cannot be refuted.

[Dontaskme]

Harbal I think you should look in the mirror before accusing others of talking in an obscure manner. If you can't meet on the meta level, stop trying to pretend you can and leave the subject to the masters of their knowledge.

It's all y/ours and you're more than welcome to it.

No, it's all ours. The Y makes that possible. The non-conceptual Heavenly Father

Mother being this Conception XY ..extra /meta Y ...I'm ALL Woman... there is no man on this earth man enough to take my Woman

Ho Ho H o ... I come bearing gifts.

[Belinda]

Dontaskme wrote:

There is no ''separate self'' that feels pain. It is EVERYTHING feeling pain. Everything is Awareness.

You have a good idea, but your language is not easy to read due to your parroting something or other. I bet you don't talk like this in your everyday life.
When you say that everything is awareness you are doing what is called 'reifying ' awareness that is, "thingifying" awareness. Awareness is not a thing but is a process which is applicable to aware things.
Similarly pain is not a thing but is a feeling that sometimes pertains to sentient things.
True, you can empathise with someone else's feelings, but you can never directly feel what another person feels.

If you want to claim that the eternal now is more true than relative time I'd not agree, because there is no way for you to have a criterion for that except faith. You wrote " In other words, there is no awareness because there is no other than awareness. " but this is simply not the case. Even from the point of view of eternity, there is also dreamless sleep , anaesthesia, and death .

There is no God that feels all feelings: such a god does not exist. I confess that I would like such a Being to exist but what I'd like is not always what I get.
However, were you to claim that pain is natural,then I'd agree that all our observations lead us to the conclusion that pain is natural.

It is absurd to say that pain is "intelligent". Nature as a whole is neither intelligent or moral. There may be a creator God that created nature. However if there is such a Being the balance of evidence is that He is unintelligent and immoral.

Dontaskme wrote:

Awareness does not appear or disappear.

Certainly you are not aware all the time and nobody else is constantly aware. I hope that you sleep dreamlessly from time to time. I sincerely hope that when your surgeon cuts into your tissues you will not be aware of pain.

From the perspective of the eternal now it is true to say that awareness does not appear or disappear, and it's also true that from the perspective of the eternal now dreamless sleep does not appear or disappear but is eternally now.

Dontaskme wrote:

And pain is very much intelligent - if there was no pain, the body would not be triggered into healing itself and would die. So pain is very positive, and not to be rejected. Intelligence knows pain is going to come and go leaving the Awareness of it totally unscathed.

Your first sentence is from the so-called 'Intelligent Design' polemic and the second clause is non sequitur. Pain is natural and beneficial but nature is not a designer who intends that pain sensations would evolve as they did.

Your second sentence contains false information. In fact, not "intelligence", but intelligent individuals are the knowers. Intelligent individuals also know that feeling pain is sometimes not constant but that it continues to be possible.

You have ideas but your portentous prose does not do them credit. I blame early influences, probably at school, which have made you credulous, and unable to use language for critical reasoning.The effect is that you parrot bits and pieces from fundamentalists' Christianity mixed up with bits and pieces of Eastern philosophy.

[Dontaskme]

Dontaskme wrote:

There is no ''separate self'' that feels pain. It is EVERYTHING feeling pain. Everything is Awareness.

You have a good idea, but your language is not easy to read due to your parroting something or other. I bet you don't talk like this in your everyday life.
When you say that everything is awareness you are doing what is called 'reifying ' awareness that is, "thingifying" awareness. Awareness is not a thing but is a process which is applicable to aware things.
Similarly pain is not a thing but is a feeling that sometimes pertains to sentient things.
True, you can empathise with someone else's feelings, but you can never directly feel what another person feels.

If you want to claim that the eternal now is more true than relative time I'd not agree, because there is no way for you to have a criterion for that except faith. You wrote " In other words, there is no awareness because there is no other than awareness. " but this is simply not the case. Even from the point of view of eternity, there is also dreamless sleep , anaesthesia, and death .

There is no God that feels all feelings: such a god does not exist. I confess that I would like such a Being to exist but what I'd like is not always what I get.
However, were you to claim that pain is natural,then I'd agree that all our observations lead us to the conclusion that pain is natural.

It is absurd to say that pain is "intelligent". Nature as a whole is neither intelligent or moral. There may be a creator God that created nature. However if there is such a Being the balance of evidence is that He is unintelligent and immoral.

Dontaskme wrote:

Awareness does not appear or disappear.

Certainly you are not aware all the time and nobody else is constantly aware. I hope that you sleep dreamlessly from time to time. I sincerely hope that when your surgeon cuts into your tissues you will not be aware of pain.

From the perspective of the eternal now it is true to say that awareness does not appear or disappear, and it's also true that from the perspective of the eternal now dreamless sleep does not appear or disappear but is eternally now.

Dontaskme wrote:

And pain is very much intelligent - if there was no pain, the body would not be triggered into healing itself and would die. So pain is very positive, and not to be rejected. Intelligence knows pain is going to come and go leaving the Awareness of it totally unscathed.

Your first sentence is from the so-called 'Intelligent Design' polemic and the second clause is non sequitur. Pain is natural and beneficial but nature is not a designer who intends that pain sensations would evolve as they did.

Your second sentence contains false information. In fact, not "intelligence", but intelligent individuals are the knowers. Intelligent individuals also know that feeling pain is sometimes not constant but that it continues to be possible.

You have ideas but your portentous prose does not do them credit. I blame early influences, probably at school, which have made you credulous, and unable to use language for critical reasoning.The effect is that you parrot bits and pieces from fundamentalists' Christianity mixed up with bits and pieces of Eastern philosophy.

Your opinion is granted ...I have no idea who parrots all this knowledge. . . but please feel free to continue all OUR parroting in a way it suits your model of reality so that you are happy with it, so that you understand it, SIMPLY because OUR world can only ever be how you see it, IT'S ALWAYS AND EVER how you are, YOU creating it, it's uncreated without OUR opinion ...every opinion is OUR prerogative. If the suit fits....

Many things are SEEN / KNOWN

But there's only ONE SEER / KNOWER

Listen for the echo....http://upload.ecvv.com/upload/Product/2 ... 453210.jpg

We ALL see and know the same things.... just differently that's all.

[Dontaskme]

Belinda wrote: Certainly you are not aware all the time and nobody else is constantly aware. I hope that you sleep dreamlessly from time to time. I sincerely hope that when your surgeon cuts into your tissues you will not be aware of pain.

You need to educate yourself to understand the difference between Awareness and Consciousness then you wouldn't have to struggle with the truth of Nonduality.

Consciousness is knocked out not Awareness. If Awareness was knocked out you would never regain Consciousness.Thank God for Awareness eh?

Here for your perusal ....http://www.prahlad.org/disciples/preman ... RENESS.htm

Happy studies

Look, I'm just here on this forum to introduce people to their real education. Reject it you don't want what's real, it's your free will.

Who do you think is the BRAINY ONE?......is it the brain...no, the brain has no idea what's real and unreal, according to the brain, there is no difference between what's real and what isn't....YOU DECIDE.

[Dontaskme]

You wrote " In other words, there is no awareness because there is no other than awareness. " but this is simply not the case. Even from the point of view of eternity, there is also dreamless sleep , anaesthesia, and death .

Maybe this will be easier for to understand...

You know you are aware (consciously self-evident) an idea known in the moment the knowing arises one with the knowing...in unconscious Awareness... but you can never know you are dead, knocked out during anaesthesia, or dreamless sleep. You'd have to be consciously there in those states to know and experience them, but that's impossible because your ''real self'' is both unconscious awareness and conscious of itself (phantom self) Awareness is not an experience. You are the experience (A phantom)

There is no God that feels all feelings: such a god does not exist. I confess that I would like such a Being to exist but what I'd like is not always what I get.

But Awareness does not want anything, anything that appears in awareness is already awareness. There's no feeling without awareness, but there can be awareness without feeling. Feelings come and go, awareness doesn't. praise be to god our loving eternal life giving awareness...for without it we would exist...but not know it..

It is absurd to say that pain is "intelligent". Nature as a whole is neither intelligent or moral. There may be a creator God that created nature. However if there is such a Being the balance of evidence is that He is unintelligent and immoral.

So then it's okay for us to all go around living lawless lives slaughtering and killing each other because there is no higher intelligence or morals in life...so we are free to just do what the heck we want regardless of who it affects. ?

nature is not a designer who intends that pain sensations would evolve as they did.

That's like saying, I'll just build this model airplane without looking at the instructions.
Or like saying...Man is not a designer that intends his design to evolve the way it does. Hmm, I wonder where this obvious perfect order we see in life comes from then ?

Your second sentence contains false information. In fact, not "intelligence", but intelligent individuals are the knowers. Intelligent individuals also know that feeling pain is sometimes not constant but that it continues to be possible.

The only intelligence there is...is this causless cause of everything. I'd like to see an individual cause it ..

I blame early influences, probably at school, which have made you credulous, and unable to use language for critical reasoning.

I don't blame anything because I don't claim ....It all just comes pouring out..if only I knew where from...I'd probably be a trillionaire by now ..

Geez Belinda, just listen to yourself...

[Belinda]

Dontaskme wrote :

Your opinion is granted ...I have no idea who parrots all this knowledge. . . but please feel free to continue all OUR parroting in a way it suits your model of reality so that you are happy with it, so that you understand it, SIMPLY because OUR world can only ever be how you see it, IT'S ALWAYS AND EVER how you are, YOU creating it, it's uncreated without OUR opinion ...every opinion is OUR prerogative. If the suit fits....

A good point Dontaskme. However some reasoning is better than other reasoning. I respect a searcher which is what you show yourself to be, and I recommend modern critical thinking techniques such as concise and explicit language, and scepticism.

Belinda wrote:
I blame early influences, probably at school, which have made you credulous, and unable to use language for critical reasoning.


I don't blame anything because I don't claim ....It all just comes pouring out..if only I knew where from...I'd probably be a trillionaire by now ..

Yes, well somebody or some people are to blame for young minds being filled with dangerous nonsense. You quite often refer to God the benevolent Designer . This imaginary character has so much evidence stacked up against Him that it is a pity you don't question His existence.

As for your Eastern guru, I understand where you are coming from. However, don't you think it probable that mystics are fallible ?

Who do you think is the BRAINY ONE?......is it the brain...no, the brain has no idea what's real and unreal, according to the brain, there is no difference between what's real and what isn't....YOU DECIDE.

A person without a brain cannot live. All the evidence points to the brain-mind as the locus of knowledge about the world. There is something that is real, i.e. something that doesn't depend upon whether or not someone is thinking it.

[Dontaskme]

A good point Dontaskme. and I recommend modern critical thinking techniques such as concise and explicit language, and scepticism.

Well thanks for the recommendation ..I would never have thought that for myself...but, this one here, prefers to put her faith in the one that brought me here, and it is from that repository of informational knowledge I trust ..but not too keen on the parroted reco's much.

And indeed, modern critical thinking techniques such as concise and explicit language, and scepticism are a certified given gift of a moral just rational intelligent conscientious mind...evidenced through the intellect of this mind ....but it's when someone appears to claim that intelligence as their assumed own as if they were the actual source of the thoughts that concerns me ..

[Harbal]

I recommend modern critical thinking techniques such as concise and explicit language

Well thanks for the recommendation ..I would never have thought that for myself..

[Dontaskme]

Yes, well somebody or some people are to blame for young minds being filled with dangerous nonsense. You quite often refer to God the benevolent Designer . This imaginary character has so much evidence stacked up against Him that it is a pity you don't question His existence.

It's quite simple logic, if you exist, and you didn't make yourself then something did, that something is not a concept known,but is known in the experiential knowing of being. I trust in the one that made this body/mind mechanism.. I'd like to think of that one as God. There is absolutely no doubt about his existence. I will only disbelieve in that one when this assumed 'human being' makes another real 'human being' from scratch...until then, it's God aka Jesus Christ's promise all the way down for this one... in that I trust...not the artificially man-made God's

As for your Eastern guru, I understand where you are coming from. However, don't you think it probable that mystics are fallible ?

No, not at all...God is love and love wants to share, and part of that sharing is being able to connect, so it's an instant win win connection for a loving faithful heart...from heart to heart. In other words, allow your conscience to be your guide.

The real God is a transcendent Immanent God, beyond the limitation of a finite named being. Before (my name) I Am.

A person without a brain cannot live. All the evidence points to the brain-mind as the locus of knowledge about the world. There is something that is real, i.e. something that doesn't depend upon whether or not someone is thinking it.

Brains don't live...brains are the apparatus , a receiving device known as the vessel of spirit ..as a radio is to the music playing. Life is living itself...singing it's song, dancing it's dance. And one aspect of that whole enchilada is the human story...where there is the freewill to choose to write a beautiful love story, full of passion, caring commitment toward each other and all other creatures ... or................

[Belinda]

Dontaskme, you are enchanted by the flowery language of whatever religious gurus you have learned from. Unless you use the explicit language endorsed by philosophy gurus I cannot be bothered to talk to you any more about how we can know stuff.

[Harbal]

Unless you use the explicit language endorsed by philosophy gurus I cannot be bothered to talk to you any more about how we can know stuff.

Your patience and persistence so far does you credit, Belinda. I only wish I had it in me to be more like you.