Not for religious people, IMO, we normally behave and long for Heaven/Nirvana/etc.
Maybe doing evil a necessity of life for Atheists who do not have the Humanist Manifesto at hand? No?
Not for religious people, IMO, we normally behave and long for Heaven/Nirvana/etc.
I think my reply answers yours.Necromancer wrote: ↑Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:10 amNot for religious people, IMO, we normally behave and long for Heaven/Nirvana/etc.
Maybe doing evil a necessity of life for Atheists who do not have the Humanist Manifesto at hand? No?
I agree with most of what you put but not your last sentence.PauloL wrote: ↑Sat Jul 08, 2017 11:36 pm To the question, Is doing evil a necessity of life?
My answer is yes, or more broadly contingency is a necessity of life.
For life to have sense, there must be contingency. Of course, if God created life, then life could have no evil as an option. I agree. However, without free will, which has evil as a side effect, we would be simple automata. You would have absolutely no choice but to decide always what is fatefully correct. Like an ant, that only does what it is programmed to do.
Nothing is granted in life, not even personal decisions.
Yet the U.S. which touts itself as a Christian nation, has the heist abortion and incarceration stats in the world.Necromancer wrote: ↑Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:10 amNot for religious people, IMO, we normally behave and long for Heaven/Nirvana/etc.
Maybe doing evil a necessity of life for Atheists who do not have the Humanist Manifesto at hand? No?
I agree with all you put other than your last.PauloL wrote: ↑Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:12 amI think my reply answers yours.Necromancer wrote: ↑Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:10 amNot for religious people, IMO, we normally behave and long for Heaven/Nirvana/etc.
Maybe doing evil a necessity of life for Atheists who do not have the Humanist Manifesto at hand? No?
without free will, which has evil as a side effect, we would be simple automata
You are free to be a religious person or an atheist.
Anyway, no position grants no evil. I could give some examples, but maybe concrete cases are outside the scope of Philosophy and could be "politically" sensible.
Hah-hah-hah, DL, you mistake "victims" for believers in something greater than your cold grave! BTW, it seems stupid to "believe in science" when the big questions of life are there to be "resolved"/"appeased" in yourself, in your mind! Also, people don't believe in science, they live by it because it generates knowledge, not speculations!Greatest I am wrote: ↑Sun Jul 09, 2017 2:17 pm I disagree as nature and philosophy forces us to compete which creates victims who will think evil has come their way if they do not recognize the good in their loss.
Take competition out of the human equation and we will likely go extinct.
Regards
DL
Vendetta, that's a crucial point and we come to the question of the almightiness of God, like if God can create 4-sided triangles.
Yes, this makes sense, but instead of his lack of intervention being evidence for his lack of capability to intervene, maybe what should be focused on is the possibility that while capable, he specifically chose not to intervene.PauloL wrote: ↑Sun Jul 09, 2017 8:34 pmVendetta, that's a crucial point and we come to the question of the almightiness of God, like if God can create 4-sided triangles.
But we have here an empirical example, the laws of Nature, created by God, have limits that contribute to mankind evil.
Why does God let the guy slip from the floor and die if God had just to cancel gravity for an instant?
The question is perhaps, is God almighty in the sense that we conceive it, limitless?
That would be nice but if it did it once as a good policy, then it would likely do it all the time.PauloL wrote: ↑Sun Jul 09, 2017 4:49 pmWhat a bright mind. Nice to see one as they are not as common as I would like to see in such places.Greatest, thanks for the cordiality first of all
I think that an option between cordiality and a more bullish reply is possible of course. But nothing grants cordiality, except our expectations. We expect a reply to be cordial, like yours, but nothing grants it.
Yes your second question is more complex. We can accept that evil is a side effect of free will so that we aren't automata. However, the elements are harder to understand if we believe God exists. I think my only hypothesis is against the dogma. To explain the elements, I think that God mustn't be almighty in that a universe had to be created according to physical laws, and God created it with the best possible physical laws, not with ideal physical laws, which would grant that Nature could never but benefit us, but aren't "physically" possible.
You are correct that nature "could never but benefit us, but aren't "physically" possible.
Nature creates for the best possible end, this is irrefutable, and if it could physically intervene, we would all reach that best possible end. Unfortunately, DNA damage, a chaotic system, thwarts what nature would prefer if it could have thoughts.
That fact is why Gnostic Christians have written this.
Gnostic Christian Jesus said, "If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.
If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.
Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.
[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.
But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."
As you can see from that quote, if we see God's kingdom all around us and inside of us, we cannot think that the world is anything but evolving perfection. Most just don't see it and live in poverty.
The world cannot be other than what it is, given all that came before this instant in time, and all instants in time, so it is always the best that it can possibly be. The world and all on it are always trying to evolve our perfection to a more perfect state as nature tries to bring us to our best possible end.Maybe we don't even need to invoke the elements when discussing this. Just think about the guy that slips from a roof and falls in the floor, perhaps dying. What is the force of gravity doing there? Couldn't it be cancelled just for a moment in just one point?