Is doing evil a necessity of life?

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: Is doing evil a necessity of life?

Post by Hobbes' Choice »

Greatest I am wrote:
Hobbes' Choice wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:
Indeed. Life feeds off of death. We enjoy our position at the top of the food chain.

Regards
DL
There are several species of bacteria that might like to disagree about who is at the top eh?
We will deal with them when they show themselves.

Futurists think we will gain more control of such little problems over time. Not less.

Regards
DL
What's your point?
bobevenson
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Re: Is doing evil a necessity of life?

Post by bobevenson »

Greatest I am wrote:
bobevenson wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:
I take it you do not believe in evolution and it's major components of cooperation and competition. Right?

Regards
DL
Evolution is a foregone conclusion, and churches and religions that deny this are led by false prophets.
Strange then that you do not seem to understand what I put.

Regards
DL
I'm talking about the existence of people in 96AD, when the book of Revelation was written.
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Arising_uk
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Re: Is doing evil a necessity of life?

Post by Arising_uk »

Greatest I am wrote:That is not really what I am saying. ...
Ok.
I am saying that what we would see as evil, competition and the creating of a loser or victim, is an evil we must endure in order that we maintain the goal of evolution which is to seek the fittest and prevent us from going extinct. ...
Do you mean intra-species or extra-species relationships?

Also, there is no actual 'goal of evolution' other than reproducing, that is what is meant by 'fitness'.
... Psychotic would be knowing we do evil, and enjoying it. I never suggested we enjoy it. ...
I'd have thought it knowing we do evil and doing it? Which is what you are suggesting.
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Greatest I am
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Re: Is doing evil a necessity of life?

Post by Greatest I am »

Hobbes' Choice wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:
Hobbes' Choice wrote:
There are several species of bacteria that might like to disagree about who is at the top eh?
We will deal with them when they show themselves.

Futurists think we will gain more control of such little problems over time. Not less.

Regards
DL
What's your point?
We are the top of the food chain and will likely remain so for the duration.

Regards
DL
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Greatest I am
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Re: Is doing evil a necessity of life?

Post by Greatest I am »

bobevenson wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:
bobevenson wrote: Evolution is a foregone conclusion, and churches and religions that deny this are led by false prophets.
Strange then that you do not seem to understand what I put.

Regards
DL
I'm talking about the existence of people in 96AD, when the book of Revelation was written.
Ah. The old liars.

Ok. This O.P. is on evolution.

Regards
DL
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Greatest I am
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Re: Is doing evil a necessity of life?

Post by Greatest I am »

Arising_uk wrote:[
quote="Greatest I am"]That is not really what I am saying. ...
Ok.
I am saying that what we would see as evil, competition and the creating of a loser or victim, is an evil we must endure in order that we maintain the goal of evolution which is to seek the fittest and prevent us from going extinct. ...
Do you mean intra-species or extra-species relationships?
With the way we raise our food animals of late, I think I would apply it to both, although I do not think our animals would have the intelligence to think it as evil. Some may be intelligent enough to dislike it though without labelling it. We do not know enough of how the (lower) animals think yet.
Also, there is no actual 'goal of evolution' other than reproducing, that is what is meant by 'fitness'.
The way animals fight for the right to reproduce, and to the winner goes the right to reproduce, it sure looks like being the fittest is a large part of what evolution accomplishes.

I think that is what Darwin meant with his survival of the fittest.
... Psychotic would be knowing we do evil, and enjoying it. I never suggested we enjoy it. ...
I'd have thought it knowing we do evil and doing it? Which is what you are suggesting.
[/quote]

I am out of the job market now but if I were still in it and competing for a job, I would know that I was creating losers and perhaps hardship but would be forced by my own fear of hardship to compete to win and do evil to the losers.

That is hardly what anyone would call psychotic.

Now if I was to kill the competitors before our job competition, that would be quite psychotic.

Regards
DL
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Greta
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Re: Is doing evil a necessity of life?

Post by Greta »

Greatest I am wrote:Is doing evil a necessity of life? Did the ancients know this and Is that why we are all named as sinners?
Yes, of course. That's what life is in essence - a system that sustains itself by taking energy from its environment. Aside from autotrophs, this means taking energy from other life forms. That's at least "evil" to any life form with a nervous system or equivalent, that can feel the harm being done to it.
Greatest I am wrote:I think nature created the potential for evil in each of us because without that potential we would not have the ability to make a free choice between good and evil or evolve to find the fittest human.

Consider. Evolution has two major components that we must do to survive; compete or cooperate, as required. Cooperation we would see as good because it does not create a victim or loser. Competition would be seen as evil as it creates a victim and loser.

From this view, we must do evil and to survive as that process produces the fittest. To not compete would produce the least fit and we would likely go extinct.

Do you see this conundrum of us having to do evil? If you do, should God punish us for doing what we must do so as not to go extinct?
I see it as a maturing process. Maturity reduces our energy output and energy needs, effortlessly bringing us to more ethical way of living.

Maturity can be thought of as a process of cooling down, be it physically or metaphorically. The universe, the solar system, stars, planets and life all follow a similar pattern. They start off intense and active and gradually cool and calm down until finally reaching thermal equilibrium. Everything we know of follows this path, including us. It doesn't matter how wicked a person may be, there will come a time when they simply don't have the energy to be wicked, and in death they return the remaining energy of their body back to the environment.
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Greatest I am
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Re: Is doing evil a necessity of life?

Post by Greatest I am »

Greta wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:Is doing evil a necessity of life? Did the ancients know this and Is that why we are all named as sinners?
Yes, of course. That's what life is in essence - a system that sustains itself by taking energy from its environment. Aside from autotrophs, this means taking energy from other life forms. That's at least "evil" to any life form with a nervous system or equivalent, that can feel the harm being done to it.
Greatest I am wrote:I think nature created the potential for evil in each of us because without that potential we would not have the ability to make a free choice between good and evil or evolve to find the fittest human.

Consider. Evolution has two major components that we must do to survive; compete or cooperate, as required. Cooperation we would see as good because it does not create a victim or loser. Competition would be seen as evil as it creates a victim and loser.

From this view, we must do evil and to survive as that process produces the fittest. To not compete would produce the least fit and we would likely go extinct.

Do you see this conundrum of us having to do evil? If you do, should God punish us for doing what we must do so as not to go extinct?
I see it as a maturing process. Maturity reduces our energy output and energy needs, effortlessly bringing us to more ethical way of living.

Maturity can be thought of as a process of cooling down, be it physically or metaphorically. The universe, the solar system, stars, planets and life all follow a similar pattern. They start off intense and active and gradually cool and calm down until finally reaching thermal equilibrium. Everything we know of follows this path, including us. It doesn't matter how wicked a person may be, there will come a time when they simply don't have the energy to be wicked, and in death they return the remaining energy of their body back to the environment.
I do not think energy levels make a difference.

Even the old have to compete for resources and jobs and they, like the young, will create victims to those competitions and thus do evil.

Regards
DL
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Greta
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Re: Is doing evil a necessity of life?

Post by Greta »

Greatest I am wrote:Even the old have to compete for resources and jobs and they, like the young, will create victims to those competitions and thus do evil.
In developed societies, our organisation and capacity to direct resources to some areas of need gives the appearance of age being able to defy nature in individuals. So, even as they are no longer capable of physically drawing on resources themselves, others help bring them in. While we are defying entropy in the short term on small scales, it's not sustainable.

In the end we will either quieten down and die slowly metaphorically like a red dwarf, or build into a fatal frenzy like larger stars.
bobevenson
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Re: Is doing evil a necessity of life?

Post by bobevenson »

Greatest I am wrote:This O.P. is on evolution.
Please, are you suggesting that Darwin was describing evil?
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Re: Is doing evil a necessity of life?

Post by Greatest I am »

Greta wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:Even the old have to compete for resources and jobs and they, like the young, will create victims to those competitions and thus do evil.
In developed societies, our organisation and capacity to direct resources to some areas of need gives the appearance of age being able to defy nature in individuals. So, even as they are no longer capable of physically drawing on resources themselves, others help bring them in. While we are defying entropy in the short term on small scales, it's not sustainable.

In the end we will either quieten down and die slowly metaphorically like a red dwarf, or build into a fatal frenzy like larger stars.
All that just makes the state the loser who gives resources away. That is victimizing the state which consists of people who are then the victims.

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DL
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Re: Is doing evil a necessity of life?

Post by Greatest I am »

bobevenson wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:This O.P. is on evolution.
Please, are you suggesting that Darwin was describing evil?
No. He was describing a process that has what would be seen as an evil component from the losers POV.

Have you even read the O.P.?

Regards
DL
bobevenson
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Re: Is doing evil a necessity of life?

Post by bobevenson »

Greatest I am wrote:Have you even read the O.P.?
I read where you said, "Cooperation we would see as good because it does not create a victim or loser. Competition would be seen as evil as it creates a victim and loser." In economic terms, cooperation would be seen as good from a socialistic or communistic point of view, and competition good from a free-market capitalistic point of view. If anything, that would mean cooperation is evil, my friend.
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Greta
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Re: Is doing evil a necessity of life?

Post by Greta »

Greatest I am wrote:
Greta wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:Even the old have to compete for resources and jobs and they, like the young, will create victims to those competitions and thus do evil.
In developed societies, our organisation and capacity to direct resources to some areas of need gives the appearance of age being able to defy nature in individuals. So, even as they are no longer capable of physically drawing on resources themselves, others help bring them in. While we are defying entropy in the short term on small scales, it's not sustainable.

In the end we will either quieten down and die slowly metaphorically like a red dwarf, or build into a fatal frenzy like larger stars.
All that just makes the state the loser who gives resources away. That is victimizing the state which consists of people who are then the victims.
It's not victimising, it's just life.
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Greatest I am
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Re: Is doing evil a necessity of life?

Post by Greatest I am »

bobevenson wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:Have you even read the O.P.?
I read where you said, "Cooperation we would see as good because it does not create a victim or loser. Competition would be seen as evil as it creates a victim and loser." In economic terms, cooperation would be seen as good from a socialistic or communistic point of view, and competition good from a free-market capitalistic point of view. If anything, that would mean cooperation is evil, my friend.
Not when the consumer base is happy as they decide what is the fittest system by supporting it.

What is good for the many outweighs the good of the few and thus evolution is not thwarted.

That cooperation is what makes the system good.

Regards
DL
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