Is doing evil a necessity of life?

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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Greatest I am
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Re: Is doing evil a necessity of life?

Post by Greatest I am » Mon Jul 10, 2017 2:17 am

PauloL wrote:
Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:50 pm
Greatest, I thank you very much for your compliments and am happy that you liked my answer.

I read yours carefully and find it very interesting indeed and deep, too.

Gnostic Christian quote is wonderful.

In fact, cancelling gravity would be a never-ending exception incompatible with the existence of the Universe (and life).

Philosophy doesn't give final answers, and we'll never know (in life at least) if evil is really a necessity of life, but we can argument forever and refine our thoughts and vision.
Not if you go to the bottom line.

All we are are sophisticated intelligent animals.

All animals that we know of cooperate when possible and compete when necessity forces them to do so.

Cooperation does not create losers or victims.
Competition does create losers who would see their loss as evil.

Survival of the fittest says that we must all either cooperate and compete to survive. Take competition, and doing evil to the losers out of the equation and we will go extinct.

That is the bottom line as I see it.

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DL

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Re: Is doing evil a necessity of life?

Post by Greatest I am » Mon Jul 10, 2017 2:23 am

PauloL wrote:
Sun Jul 09, 2017 11:23 pm
Well, that might be more the contrary, that man must conform to God's expectations. :)
Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”
― Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

Only a person with satanic morals would want to be as perfect as Yahweh.

All; moral people will agree.

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DL

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Re: Is doing evil a necessity of life?

Post by PauloL » Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:23 am

Greatest, your vision of cooperation and competition is interesting. But not all evil comes from competition.

I'm sorry that Richard Dawkins is a Zoologist and a fanatic atheist who uses his literary tributes to spread dishonest argumentation to the masses.

I respect atheists and sometimes tolerate dishonest people, but I ignore and don't respect fanatic people of any kind.

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Re: Is doing evil a necessity of life?

Post by PauloL » Mon Jul 10, 2017 5:38 pm

PauloL wrote:
Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:56 pm
thedoc wrote:
Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:41 pm
Vendetta wrote:
Sun Jul 09, 2017 8:42 pm
What is it that could make God intentionally allow for an individual to die if he had the capability to prevent it?
Is it possible that the greater good to God is a soul going to Heaven rather than continuing it's life on Earth?
That's really hard to answer. If it was absolutely true, there would be no life on Earth, as all souls should be in Heaven.

On the other hand, a person can die from the time in utero until more than a hundred years later, which doesn't help answering your question.
After reconsidering Vendetta's thoughts here, I think that they can be challenged by the simple fact that the guy may not die, but just remain paraplegic, an evil outcome anyway.

Further, accepting that the soul had to go to Heaven (even if this poses many empiric challenges), then death may not represent evil and we had to redefine the meaning of evil.

As we discuss, we can't avoid regression to infinity and recognize the only possible conclusion, the one that is infinitely true: the solipsistic

.......................................................................cogito ergo sum.......................................................................

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Re: Is doing evil a necessity of life?

Post by seeds » Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:10 pm

PauloL wrote:
Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:23 am
I'm sorry that Richard Dawkins is a Zoologist and a fanatic atheist who uses his literary tributes to spread dishonest argumentation to the masses.

I respect atheists and sometimes tolerate dishonest people, but I ignore and don't respect fanatic people of any kind.
Well said, PauloL (and welcome to the forum).

As Einstein once stated:

“The fanatical atheists are like slaves who are still feeling the weight of their chains which they have thrown off after hard struggle...”

As witnessed in that caustic diatribe noted by Greatest I am, it seems clear that Dawkins is still feeling the weight of those chains.
_______

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Re: Is doing evil a necessity of life?

Post by PauloL » Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:17 pm

Thanks for your words and your warm welcome, Seeds.

I appreciate very much your quote from Einstein, such a great person. It couldn't be put more clearly.

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Re: Is doing evil a necessity of life?

Post by PauloL » Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:27 am

thedoc wrote:
Sun Jul 09, 2017 11:29 pm
PauloL wrote:
Sun Jul 09, 2017 11:19 pm
thedoc wrote:
Sun Jul 09, 2017 11:15 pm


You're right, but which would have a better understanding of theology?
I'm sorry that I edited my reply as you typed and that might answer in part.

I think the Theologian has the best understanding of course, as the Theologian supplies the source material for Philosophy of Religion.

Further, Philosophy gives no answers, only discusses topics, but Theology may give answers (which answers the question about the souls, I think).
Not a problem.

I think it is unfortunate that so many religious people have questions and there are many "experts" in religion who are willing to give answers.

I once had a conversation with my father, and the conversation got around to Heaven. He said "someone told him that in Heaven we would spend all day worshiping God and singing God's praises." he then said "If that is what Heaven is, I don't think I want to go there." I should have pointed out that was just one persons idea of what Heaven was, and didn't apply to everyone, but I was a bit stunned and didn't know what to say at the time.
Thedoc, I understand your doubts and revolt inside you with such mean people who think that they hold the truth.

I think you're in the right place to clear your doubts in the broadest possible sense. But remember that Philosophy doesn't give answers and may even generate more doubts, but these are legitimate doubts, not something made up by mean people. Also, Philosophy discusses the existence of God, not concrete religions, and philosophically speaking, God may exist and yet no religion invoke God correctly. I understand this is very sensitive, but it's the pure philosophical view. Only the Theologian, not the Philosopher, may give you concrete answers, as discussed before. This is my sincere opinion and open to all criticism.

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Re: Is doing evil a necessity of life?

Post by Greatest I am » Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:30 am

PauloL wrote:
Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:23 am
Greatest, your vision of cooperation and competition is interesting. But not all evil comes from competition.

I'm sorry that Richard Dawkins is a Zoologist and a fanatic atheist who uses his literary tributes to spread dishonest argumentation to the masses.

I respect atheists and sometimes tolerate dishonest people, but I ignore and don't respect fanatic people of any kind.
Jesus was a fanatic and all human to human evil can be attributed to people competing for something.

Name what evil you had in mind above please. Statements without argument is beneath your intelligence.

Regards
DL

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Re: Is doing evil a necessity of life?

Post by thedoc » Tue Jul 11, 2017 3:34 am

PauloL wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:27 am
Thedoc, I understand your doubts and revolt inside you with such mean people who think that they hold the truth.

I think you're in the right place to clear your doubts in the broadest possible sense. But remember that Philosophy doesn't give answers and may even generate more doubts, but these are legitimate doubts, not something made up by mean people. Also, Philosophy discusses the existence of God, not concrete religions, and philosophically speaking, God may exist and yet no religion invoke God correctly. I understand this is very sensitive, but it's the pure philosophical view. Only the Theologian, not the Philosopher, may give you concrete answers, as discussed before. This is my sincere opinion and open to all criticism.
In the past I have read 2 things that have been a great comfort to me, the most recent was that a Christian doesn't need to have all the answers. It was very comforting to know that I didn't need to know everything before the end.

The other was when I was reading Zen and it was stated that all are enlightened but most do not know it. I decided that since I was already enlightened (even if I didn't know it) I would just skip all the hard work and play with my grandchildren.

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Re: Is doing evil a necessity of life?

Post by PauloL » Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:16 am

Greatest I am wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:30 am
PauloL wrote:
Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:23 am
Greatest, your vision of cooperation and competition is interesting. But not all evil comes from competition.

I'm sorry that Richard Dawkins is a Zoologist and a fanatic atheist who uses his literary tributes to spread dishonest argumentation to the masses.

I respect atheists and sometimes tolerate dishonest people, but I ignore and don't respect fanatic people of any kind.
Jesus was a fanatic and all human to human evil can be attributed to people competing for something.

Name what evil you had in mind above please. Statements without argument is beneath your intelligence.

Regards
DL
Well, even if you classify Jesus as a fanatic, which surprises me, it won't change my mind in relation to fanatic people. Did Jesus spread dishonest argumentation to the masses?

I think I was talking about the evil you mention in relation to competition, but if I missed something, please let me know.

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Re: Is doing evil a necessity of life?

Post by Greatest I am » Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:15 pm

PauloL wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:16 am
Greatest I am wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:30 am
PauloL wrote:
Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:23 am
Greatest, your vision of cooperation and competition is interesting. But not all evil comes from competition.

I'm sorry that Richard Dawkins is a Zoologist and a fanatic atheist who uses his literary tributes to spread dishonest argumentation to the masses.

I respect atheists and sometimes tolerate dishonest people, but I ignore and don't respect fanatic people of any kind.
Jesus was a fanatic and all human to human evil can be attributed to people competing for something.

Name what evil you had in mind above please. Statements without argument is beneath your intelligence.

Regards
DL
Well, even if you classify Jesus as a fanatic, which surprises me, it won't change my mind in relation to fanatic people. Did Jesus spread dishonest argumentation to the masses?

I think I was talking about the evil you mention in relation to competition, but if I missed something, please let me know.
You missed, --- But not all evil comes from competition.

There is more than one Jesus that speaks in the bible. He says some good things and some evil things depending on if it is the Roman created wimp, or the esoteric sage.

To say that a man who sets himself up to die for his cause is not a fanatic is a poor use of language.

He obviously is.

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DL

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Re: Is doing evil a necessity of life?

Post by PauloL » Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:06 pm

Greatest, as discussed before, I don't think that all evil comes from competition, do you?

Jesus is a prophet, and as such it's hard to accept him as fanatic, once all his life was divinely determined if you accept the scriptures.

Only if you think that Jesus was a charlatan can you classify him as fanatic.

Anyway Richard Dawkins is a fanatic atheist and this is uncontroversial.

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Re: Is doing evil a necessity of life?

Post by Greatest I am » Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:31 pm

PauloL wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:06 pm
Greatest, as discussed before, I don't think that all evil comes from competition, do you?
Human to human evil, yes, and you are not giving any examples to the contrary but just restating your belief without an argument or example of what you mean.
Jesus is a prophet, and as such it's hard to accept him as fanatic, once all his life was divinely determined if you accept the scriptures.
I do not.
Only if you think that Jesus was a charlatan can you classify him as fanatic.
?? So only liars can be fanatics. Ok.
Anyway Richard Dawkins is a fanatic atheist and this is uncontroversial.
That is a subjective call based on degree.

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DL

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Re: Is doing evil a necessity of life?

Post by PauloL » Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:11 pm

Greatest, thanks for the comments.

I think I answered all your questions and I have nothing else to add on the subject.

This topic is about the necessity of evil, so you may wish to create a topic on the fanaticism of Jesus.

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Re: Is doing evil a necessity of life?

Post by Greatest I am » Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:42 pm

Thanks buddy.

I thought you had more in you.

Regards
DL

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