If God is so merciful, then why did Jesus have to be sacrificed?

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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Immanuel Can
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Re: If God is so merciful, then why did Jesus have to be sacrificed?

Post by Immanuel Can »

Belinda wrote:The sort of ideas you do know are apologetics for literal interpretations and lead me to think that you are a preacher by profession.
First incorrect guess. But not a bad one, in that I do know a bit about theology.
You are literate and articulate.
Thank you. Very kind.
I am sorry that preachers by profession have to accommodate the lowest common denominator of imagination among their flocks. Religion has a good future but only if religionists modernise and face up realistically to the problems of the future of life on Earth.
Which "religion"?

You skeptics never specify. It's as if none of you have any idea that "religions" aren't a real thing, but a dismissive collective noun invented by secularists. A little history or etymology would sure help there. Harrison's recent "The Territories of Science and Religion" would be a good place to start.

And I have no "flock." Nor, as I say, have I that "profession."
Your silly and facile denigrations of social sciences don't do you credit.
"Social science" is an oxymoron. To deal with the "social" is to have to depart scientific methods to a certain degree. How far that variance is depends on the particular "social discipline" under consideration.

I don't denigrate the social sciences in general. But I also don't mistake them for "hard" sciences. The "hard" sciences are primarily Physics, Biology and Chemistry. Beyond that are the "soft" sciences, none of which has a reasonably rigorous set of methodologies like, say, Physics or Chemistry do. (Biology is a little less rigorous.) All have some degree of weakness and fiction-making in that regard. Not to know that would be terribly, terribly naive.

Archaeology, Economics and History, while not strictly rigorous, have enough methodology in them to yield generally useful results. Psychology and Sociology, along with Literary Studies, have less rigour, but still some useful findings for those who can winnow out chaff. Anthropology, Religious Studies, Educational Studies and so on are a heavy mix of ideology and methodology...most people cannot sort them out anymore, and much of what they say is apocryphal at best, downright absurd at worst. And Critical Theory, Gender Studies, and Basketweaving belong at the far end of the spectrum...except that Basketweaving tends to do more good than harm, which is more than can be claimed for its companions.

So I would not "denigrate" all of what is called the "social sciences." But anyone with an ounce of common sense will denigrate some of them.
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Dontaskme
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Re: If God is so merciful, then why did Jesus have to be sacrificed?

Post by Dontaskme »

Belinda wrote: For instance maternal love and care is necessary but insufficient for the baby. Mothers and fathers need to know within reasonable limits what is good for the child. Parents' strong feelings are not enough. Some parents have been got at by bad advisors such as advise bad feeding, bad clothing, some bad advisors even say don't give blood transfusions. I recommend, in addition to maternal passionate love for your newborn, reason and the best of up to date knowledge such as the health visitor may recommend . That is what I mean when I say that I wish you would add reason to your passion.
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Vendetta
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Re: If God is so merciful, then why did Jesus have to be sacrificed?

Post by Vendetta »

Belinda wrote:
Immanuel Can wrote:after all, you have no idea who I am, as I said.

...you are unaware that there is a more important discussion to be had, i.e. about the future of life on Earth, and the part that religion may or may not play.

I am not unaware. It is called "The Secularization Hypothesis." But since the 1960s, no credible sociologist takes it seriously anymore.
The sort of ideas you do know are apologetics for literal interpretations and lead me to think that you are a preacher by profession. You are literate and
articulate. I am sorry that preachers by profession have to accommodate the lowest common denominator of imagination among their flocks. Religion has a good future but only if religionists modernise and face up realistically to the problems of the future of life on Earth.

Your silly and facile denigrations of social sciences don't do you credit.
Why is it that because Immanuel holds a theistic point of view and you disagree with him, you resort to assuming that he is a preacher?
There is distinction between a belief in God, and ardent faith in a religion that demands following strictly to every rule it declares.
While I cannot speak for the perspective on religion that specifically Immanuel holds or how he chooses to lead his belief, It seems a little farfetched to connect the two. One can hold an extreme faith in God and not subscribe to a specific religion. On the question of God, it's important to differentiate the two.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: If God is so merciful, then why did Jesus have to be sacrificed?

Post by Immanuel Can »

Vendetta wrote:Why is it that because Immanuel holds a theistic point of view and you disagree with him, you resort to assuming that he is a preacher?
Don't worry, V. It doesn't unsettle me in the least.

Ask me sometime why I do what I do here, and I'll tell you.

Then it'll all make sense.
Walker
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Re: If God is so merciful, then why did Jesus have to be sacrificed?

Post by Walker »

Immanuel Can wrote:
Vendetta wrote:Why is it that because Immanuel holds a theistic point of view and you disagree with him, you resort to assuming that he is a preacher?
Don't worry, V. It doesn't unsettle me in the least.

Ask me sometime why I do what I do here, and I'll tell you.

Then it'll all make sense.
Why do you do what you do here?
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Vendetta
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Re: If God is so merciful, then why did Jesus have to be sacrificed?

Post by Vendetta »

Immanuel Can wrote:
Vendetta wrote:Why is it that because Immanuel holds a theistic point of view and you disagree with him, you resort to assuming that he is a preacher?
Don't worry, V. It doesn't unsettle me in the least.

Ask me sometime why I do what I do here, and I'll tell you.

Then it'll all make sense.
Okay. While I'm happy that you aren't unsettled and I'm sorry for cutting in, I dislike it when people jump to farfetched conclusions about an individual, regardless of who they are. That's why I felt the need to respond. Of course, you don't seem like the kind of person to be phased by comments such as this considering your reaction to similar remarks made in your direction in previous comments.
In terms of your intent here, well, you've caught my attention. I am quite curious as to your answer.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: If God is so merciful, then why did Jesus have to be sacrificed?

Post by Immanuel Can »

Walker wrote: Why do you do what you do here?
For reasons of my own. But it's not always for charming, polite and erudite conversation, present company notwithstanding. :wink: I have some interest in the "difficult" people as well.
thedoc
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Re: If God is so merciful, then why did Jesus have to be sacrificed?

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Immanuel Can wrote:
Walker wrote: Why do you do what you do here?
For reasons of my own. But it's not always for charming, polite and erudite conversation, present company notwithstanding. :wink: I have some interest in the "difficult" people as well.
I think I know what you mean, but it's important to remember that according to Lutheran teaching, people don't "save" other people, we can only introduce others to the word and the holy spirit does the rest. I have had my own experience with difficult people who wouldn't accept what was known and insisted that their unconventional ideas were correct.
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Dontaskme
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Re: If God is so merciful, then why did Jesus have to be sacrificed?

Post by Dontaskme »

Immanuel Can wrote:
Walker wrote: Why do you do what you do here?
For reasons of my own. But it's not always for charming, polite and erudite conversation, present company notwithstanding. :wink: I have some interest in the "difficult" people as well.
People/egos will always defend the God of their own understanding. Egos like to show off their understandings to others in the pursuit of finding a match to further endorse, bolster and boost their own findings...their belief is reinforced by other so to speak...but it's all the work of the ego.

The Real God is Tacit, a God that cannot be spoken about..This God, the real God looks on in complete detachment..perhaps with an amusing smile permanently attached to it's faceless face...this was the truth the Vendantists were theorizing...but you probably won't agree with anything I've expressed because your God is thee only Infallible one in living human history according to the voice of Immanuel Can.
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Vendetta
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Re: If God is so merciful, then why did Jesus have to be sacrificed?

Post by Vendetta »

thedoc wrote:
Immanuel Can wrote:
Walker wrote: Why do you do what you do here?
For reasons of my own. But it's not always for charming, polite and erudite conversation, present company notwithstanding. :wink: I have some interest in the "difficult" people as well.
I think I know what you mean, but it's important to remember that according to Lutheran teaching, people don't "save" other people, we can only introduce others to the word and the holy spirit does the rest. I have had my own experience with difficult people who wouldn't accept what was known and insisted that their unconventional ideas were correct.
Perhaps Immanuel finds the over the top and unnecessarily agressive manner in which some people respond here when their point is challenged entertaining. It seems that you no matter what you say, these people will not see anything but their side to things. The key here is that you cannot force people to believe your point :D
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Immanuel Can
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Re: If God is so merciful, then why did Jesus have to be sacrificed?

Post by Immanuel Can »

Vendetta wrote:Perhaps Immanuel finds the over the top and unnecessarily agressive manner in which some people respond here when their point is challenged entertaining. It seems that you no matter what you say, these people will not see anything but their side to things. The key here is that you cannot force people to believe your point :D
True dat.
:wink:
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Dontaskme
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Re: If God is so merciful, then why did Jesus have to be sacrificed?

Post by Dontaskme »

Vendetta wrote:The key here is that you cannot force people to believe your point :D
It's the smug way he uses the :shock: emoji that I find irritating.
thedoc
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Re: If God is so merciful, then why did Jesus have to be sacrificed?

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When someone is Great, it's very difficult to not be Smug.
Belinda
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Re: If God is so merciful, then why did Jesus have to be sacrificed?

Post by Belinda »

DontAskMe wrote:
The Real God is Tacit, a God that cannot be spoken about
If there is a real god then it must be as you say, it cannot be spoken about . We can't attribute anything to it, as it is incomprehensible.

There are at least two issues from the god that cannot be spoken about.

One of those is that, if god cannot be spoken about nobody can claim to know what god wants, plans, or commands.

The second issue from the god that cannot be spoken about is that it is incomprehensible so there is no point in worshipping it or surrendering to it.
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Vendetta
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Re: If God is so merciful, then why did Jesus have to be sacrificed?

Post by Vendetta »

Dontaskme wrote:
Vendetta wrote:The key here is that you cannot force people to believe your point :D
It's the smug way he uses the :shock: emoji that I find irritating.
I find it rather enjoyable. Why shouldn't one be smug if they're right?
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