Christians break the Golden Rule when accepting Jesus as savior.

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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attofishpi
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Re: Christians break the Golden Rule when accepting Jesus as savior.

Post by attofishpi »

bobevenson wrote:
attofishpi wrote:
bobevenson wrote:I can offer you precepts, poetry or ploys,
And even more.
I'm listening - please post at least 5 of YOUR poems.
I thought you'd never ask http://church-of-ouzo.com/pdf/ouzo-poetry.pdf.
Hello Bob. Thanks for that link i had a read.

A query re this one:-
When you're in Cincinnati
Going north on Vine
Till you're out in the boonies
And across the line,
Just follow that crowd
Till you see the sign
Of Club Ouzo No.9.

Is there actually a physical location - by way of a club ouzo no 9?
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attofishpi
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Re: Christians break the Golden Rule when accepting Jesus as savior.

Post by attofishpi »

Greatest I am wrote:Christians break the Golden Rule when accepting Jesus as savior.
No they don't. It was Jesus that made the commandment of the 'golden rule' and he also instructed his followers to believe in his suffering as a path to their salvation. If anything by way of YOUR thinking - Jesus could be construed as contradicting himself.
thedoc
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Re: Christians break the Golden Rule when accepting Jesus as savior.

Post by thedoc »

attofishpi wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:Christians break the Golden Rule when accepting Jesus as savior.
No they don't. It was Jesus that made the commandment of the 'golden rule' and he also instructed his followers to believe in his suffering as a path to their salvation. If anything by way of YOUR thinking - Jesus could be construed as contradicting himself.
No they don't, just as attofishpi says. Jesus went to the cross willingly and he commanded that Christians sacrifice themselves for others willingly. There is no contradiction. Matthew 25:40
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attofishpi
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Re: Christians break the Golden Rule when accepting Jesus as savior.

Post by attofishpi »

I find this verse interesting:
Matthew 26:2
2. Ye know that after two days is [the feast of] the passover, and the Son of man is betrayed to be crucified.

Do you believe that it was not in Christ's plan to be crucified?
Walker
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Re: Christians break the Golden Rule when accepting Jesus as savior.

Post by Walker »

Greatest I am wrote:True that Jane asked for help, then handed her friend the gun, not a spanking implement.

The point of that movie, and I appreciate that you might have to watch the whole thing to get it, is that we kill suffering animals, and that should be what guides our thinking in cases of mercy killing or dying with dignity.

It is also showing the deep love of friends who would even do a mercy killing for a friend who has lost all hope.

Regards
DL
Hollywood seeking a plot twist to titillate.

With friends like that, who needs executioners.
bobevenson
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Re: Christians break the Golden Rule when accepting Jesus as savior.

Post by bobevenson »

attofishpi wrote:
bobevenson wrote:
attofishpi wrote: I'm listening - please post at least 5 of YOUR poems.
I thought you'd never ask http://church-of-ouzo.com/pdf/ouzo-poetry.pdf.
Hello Bob. Thanks for that link i had a read.

A query re this one:-
When you're in Cincinnati
Going north on Vine
Till you're out in the boonies
And across the line,
Just follow that crowd
Till you see the sign
Of Club Ouzo No.9.

Is there actually a physical location - by way of a club ouzo no 9?
No, Club Ouzo No. 9 is everywhere, it's a state of mind.
bobevenson
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Re: Christians break the Golden Rule when accepting Jesus as savior.

Post by bobevenson »

Yeah, right, another piece of your government BBC stupidity you are forced to support whether you like it or not. Let's hear it for the tyranny you apparently love to wallow in!
thedoc
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Re: Christians break the Golden Rule when accepting Jesus as savior.

Post by thedoc »

attofishpi wrote:I find this verse interesting:
Matthew 26:2
2. Ye know that after two days is [the feast of] the passover, and the Son of man is betrayed to be crucified.

Do you believe that it was not in Christ's plan to be crucified?
Yes that was the final step in the play. Odd but everything in this song is true, but Judas misunderstood everything.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-voeq7Cebo
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Greatest I am
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Re: Christians break the Golden Rule when accepting Jesus as savior.

Post by Greatest I am »

attofishpi wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:Christians break the Golden Rule when accepting Jesus as savior.
No they don't. It was Jesus that made the commandment of the 'golden rule' and he also instructed his followers to believe in his suffering as a path to their salvation. If anything by way of YOUR thinking - Jesus could be construed as contradicting himself.
I think they do.

Shall we debate the merits of substitutionary atonement with a (real) world scenario?
If you do not like my apology then provide your own and I can deal with it.

------------

Human sacrifice is evil and God/Yahweh demanding one and Jesus accepting one is evil. Jesus accepted the premise of his sacrifice being somehow just. This is evil.

Those trying to profit from that evil are evil. Do just a bit of thinking and you will agree.

Imagine you have two children. One of your children does something wrong – say it curses, or throws a temper tantrum, or something like that. In fact, say it does this on a regular basis, and you continually forgive your child, but it never seems to change.

Now suppose one day you’ve had enough, you need to do something different. You still wish to forgive your child, but nothing has worked. Do you go to your second child, your good child, and punish it to atone for the sins of the first?

In fact, if you ever saw a parent on the street punish one of their children for the actions of their other child, how would you react? Would you support their decision, or would you be offended? Because God punished Jesus -- his good child -- for the sins of his other children.

Interestingly, some historical royal families would beat their slaves when their own children did wrong – you should not, after all, ever beat a prince. The question is: what kind of lesson does that teach the child who actually did the harm? Does it teach them to be a better person, to stop doing harm, or does it teach them both that they won't themselves be punished, and also that punishing other people is normal? I know that's not a lesson I would want to teach my children, and I suspect it's not a lesson most Christians would want to teach theirs. So why does God?

For me, that’s at least one significant reason I find Jesus’ atonement of our sin to be morally repugnant – of course, that’s assuming Jesus ever existed; that original sin actually exists; that God actually exists; etc.

Having another innocent person suffer for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral.

Do you agree?

If not, please show how it is morally and legally good to punish the innocent instead of the guilty, bearing in mind that all legal systems think that punishing the guilty is what is justice.

Regards
DL
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Greatest I am
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Re: Christians break the Golden Rule when accepting Jesus as savior.

Post by Greatest I am »

thedoc wrote:
attofishpi wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:Christians break the Golden Rule when accepting Jesus as savior.
No they don't. It was Jesus that made the commandment of the 'golden rule' and he also instructed his followers to believe in his suffering as a path to their salvation. If anything by way of YOUR thinking - Jesus could be construed as contradicting himself.
No they don't, just as attofishpi says. Jesus went to the cross willingly and he commanded that Christians sacrifice themselves for others willingly. There is no contradiction. Matthew 25:40
That is not what Christians did if the Holy Wars and Inquisitions are an indicator.

I would not exactly say that Jesus willingly went to the cross. He whined quite a bit at Calvary and othe places where he said he was doing his fathers will and not his own.

This link proves this to be true.

1Peter 1:20 0 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

Being chosen is not volunteering.

Regards
DL
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Greatest I am
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Re: Christians break the Golden Rule when accepting Jesus as savior.

Post by Greatest I am »

Walker wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:True that Jane asked for help, then handed her friend the gun, not a spanking implement.

The point of that movie, and I appreciate that you might have to watch the whole thing to get it, is that we kill suffering animals, and that should be what guides our thinking in cases of mercy killing or dying with dignity.

It is also showing the deep love of friends who would even do a mercy killing for a friend who has lost all hope.

Regards
DL
Hollywood seeking a plot twist to titillate.

With friends like that, who needs executioners.
Well, to given friendship a religious twist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsLqEMulYDw

Seems you are saying that you would deny a good friend respite from his lose of hope and hate of life, --- and leave him to suffer.

You would not kill a crippled horse who had no chance of recovery.

I would go the other way I think and show mercy.

Regards
DL
thedoc
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Re: Christians break the Golden Rule when accepting Jesus as savior.

Post by thedoc »

Greatest I am wrote: Do you agree?
Regards
DL
No I don't. It is a mistake to apply modern ideas and thoughts to ancient people, to God, or to people of another culture.

During a Bible study many years ago someone asked what Uriah was thinking and one gentleman applied modern concepts and declared that he must have been pissed off, when in truth men of that time felt it was an honor to serve the king, no matter what was asked of them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwkgGPvClF4&t=71s

During WWII Americans couldn't understand the Japanese kamikaze mentality, American soldiers wanted to live so that they could keep fighting. The deliberate act of suicide was beyond their scope of thought except in the most extreme circumstances.
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Greatest I am
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Re: Christians break the Golden Rule when accepting Jesus as savior.

Post by Greatest I am »

thedoc wrote:
Greatest I am wrote: Do you agree?
Regards
DL
No I don't. It is a mistake to apply modern ideas and thoughts to ancient people, to God, or to people of another culture.

During a Bible study many years ago someone asked what Uriah was thinking and one gentleman applied modern concepts and declared that he must have been pissed off, when in truth men of that time felt it was an honor to serve the king, no matter what was asked of them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwkgGPvClF4&t=71s

During WWII Americans couldn't understand the Japanese kamikaze mentality, American soldiers wanted to live so that they could keep fighting. The deliberate act of suicide was beyond their scope of thought except in the most extreme circumstances.
I am sure that some Americans did understand that the good of the many outweighed the good of the few. That is why they volunteered to fight.

Let us look at the ancient courts of law.

Were they trying hard to punish the guilty and not the innocent?

Like today, yes they were, so how can you say that it is a mistake to apply modern ideas and thoughts to ancient people.

Regards
DL
bobevenson
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Re: Christians break the Golden Rule when accepting Jesus as savior.

Post by bobevenson »

Would somebody please tell me where I can find "Golden Rule" in the Bible, or is this just part of your wishful thinking?
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