what is relied upon but cant be proven other than its effects is religion? And we all do it

[osgart]

faith in a higher power is one.
Athletes do it all the time.

Theres bad religion and theres good religion.
So why go hating on religion.
Injustice is due to a persons choice of heart and religion just a vehicle of its evil.
Science and secularism has the possibility of being used as evil just the same as religion. Theres good and bad in both religion and secular living.
Jihadists dont give a damn about god or anything truly divine. They only use the religion for hates sake. We should never lump all religion as evil. Thats mercenary!

[Lacewing]

Sure, there are flip sides to everything.

But I think one reason that a lot of people don't like religion is because it is OFTEN USED to separate out and judge/condemn those who do not believe the same. That's just really messed up. It almost seems like a major purpose of religion is to establish/define DIVISIONS! Those who believe/belong vs. those who don't. Those who believe, are seen as being good and right, and as being aligned with ultimate truth that applies to ALL. It's very arrogant and intrusive and oppressive against those who have no interest in it.

People who don't believe in a god and don't care about religion, probably wouldn't care at all about what other people want to believe (for themselves) if they wouldn't impose on those of us who don't believe the same. Live and let live, you know?

[HexHammer]

faith in a higher power is one.
Athletes do it all the time.

Theres bad religion and theres good religion.
So why go hating on religion.
Injustice is due to a persons choice of heart and religion just a vehicle of its evil.
Science and secularism has the possibility of being used as evil just the same as religion. Theres good and bad in both religion and secular living.
Jihadists dont give a damn about god or anything truly divine. They only use the religion for hates sake. We should never lump all religion as evil. Thats mercenary!

Incoherent babble!
It's not just religion, it's the nature of humans that anyone powerful can appeal to, warlords, presidents, gangs ..etc..etc.

[osgart]

imposing is not right. It shows the shallowness of the religion. Theres many possible things a person can believe in. Why should anyone be looked down on just for being else believing?
If reality was totally informative than we all would have to subscribe to its totality.
Yet there are always going to be questions beyond answering.
But you can tell if your faith is erroneous or good by its effects.And having a faith in a higher power often is rewarding if it is rooted in good things of honest value.

[BradburyPound]

faith in a higher power is one.
Athletes do it all the time.

Theres bad religion and theres good religion.
So why go hating on religion.
Injustice is due to a persons choice of heart and religion just a vehicle of its evil.
Science and secularism has the possibility of being used as evil just the same as religion. Theres good and bad in both religion and secular living.
Jihadists dont give a damn about god or anything truly divine. They only use the religion for hates sake. We should never lump all religion as evil. Thats mercenary!

Faith is when you stop thinking, and believe you know. It is always bad.
There is not good religion. It all teaches to abandon reason and thinking; it is all bad.
The rest of your stuff is confused.
When you adopt faith you have no basis upon which to distinguish between good and evil, you loose the power of discrimination and open yourself and others the abuse of the priesthood.

[osgart]

Faith isnt dangerous. Blind faith is. Its what you put your faith in that matters. You have faith in reason. Reason is what you rely on. Its your religion.
Without faith in something there would be nothing. Some things are bigger than us all. Loyalty, love of country . Faith in others. Faith in an idea. Some people believe in things with no evidence yet it is a source of strength based on their own logic and the effect it has in their lives. Their is a ton of things beyond knowledge that have to be taken on faith and belief. If nobody had faith and belief than nothing would happen and no one would know what works and what doesnt. Trial and error and setbacks are apart of the process.

[BradburyPound]

Faith isnt dangerous. Blind faith is. Its what you put your faith in that matters. You have faith in reason. Reason is what you rely on. Its your religion.
{/quote]
Since all faith is, by definition blind, then your distinction if false.

Without faith in something there would be nothing.

That would be to say that the universe is faith. This is simply an unworthy and meaningless comment.

Some things are bigger than us all. Loyalty, love of country .

Loyalty is an emotional state, not an epistemic one. You are confusing categories.
Love of country is the mind death of the servile, the yearn of the fascist and the last words of murdering cannon fodder. You ought to be ashamed of yourself for that reference.

Faith in others. Faith in an idea. Some people believe in things with no evidence yet it is a source of strength based on their own logic and the effect it has in their lives. Their is a ton of things beyond knowledge that have to be taken on faith and belief. If nobody had faith and belief than nothing would happen and no one would know what works and what doesnt. Trial and error and setbacks are apart of the process.

There is a difference between faith which is blind, and trust based on knowledge. When I 'trust' my doctor, I am capable of rejecting her diagnosis in favour of an alternative. People who treat their doctor with faith are not capable of understanding that diagnoses can be wrong. Trusting a doctor means having he ability to ask how and why a particular diagnosis has been made and how an alternative diagnosis might be true also. If you trust your doctor you can enter a dialogue; if you have faith in your doctor then you can only remain silent and accept his words.

The rest of your hyperbole is not convincing.
For 'trial and error' to lead to revision and re-trial relies on reason, evidence and careful observation; faith plays no part.

[osgart]

through reason evidence and careful observation a stronger faith is built.
Science and philosophy is for the mind. Religion is for the heart.
The concept of religion is good. All religions have failed at the concept.

[BradburyPound]

through reason evidence and careful observation a stronger faith is built.

You are simply demonstrating a category error here; confusing terms.

Science and philosophy is for the mind. Religion is for the heart.
The concept of religion is good. All religions have failed at the concept.

There is no "concept of religion", as a unitary concept. You might as well say 'the concept of religion is failure'.