But then you're referring to mind, so it wouldn't make sense to say, "The heart, not the mind . . ."Dontaskme wrote:The knowing centre of knowledge, the heart of the matter.Terrapin Station wrote:If you're not referring to the organ by "heart," what are you referring to?Dontaskme wrote:
I'm not talking about a piece of meat, although sound does affect the meat.
Looking for God in all the wrong places.
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Re: Looking for God in all the wrong places.
Re: Looking for God in all the wrong places.
The mind is known by the heart. That which is known does not exist.Terrapin Station wrote:But then you're referring to mind, so it wouldn't make sense to say, "The heart, not the mind . . ."Dontaskme wrote:The knowing centre of knowledge, the heart of the matter.Terrapin Station wrote:If you're not referring to the organ by "heart," what are you referring to?
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Re: Looking for God in all the wrong places.
So you're claiming that minds do not exist.Dontaskme wrote:The mind is known by the heart. That which is known does not exist.Terrapin Station wrote:But then you're referring to mind, so it wouldn't make sense to say, "The heart, not the mind . . ."Dontaskme wrote:
The knowing centre of knowledge, the heart of the matter.
Re: Looking for God in all the wrong places.
Well have you ever seen a mind?Terrapin Station wrote:So you're claiming that minds do not exist.Dontaskme wrote:The mind is known by the heart. That which is known does not exist.Terrapin Station wrote:But then you're referring to mind, so it wouldn't make sense to say, "The heart, not the mind . . ."
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Re: Looking for God in all the wrong places.
Yes--I've seen brains. Minds are particular brain states.Dontaskme wrote:Well have you ever seen a mind?Terrapin Station wrote:So you're claiming that minds do not exist.Dontaskme wrote:
The mind is known by the heart. That which is known does not exist.
Re: Looking for God in all the wrong places.
Who has seen a brain...who and what is the 'I' looking at the brain?Terrapin Station wrote: Yes--I've seen brains. Minds are particular brain states.
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Re: Looking for God in all the wrong places.
"I" is a set of mental states. And again, mind is just a set of brain states.Dontaskme wrote:Who has seen a brain...who and what is the 'I' looking at the brain?Terrapin Station wrote: Yes--I've seen brains. Minds are particular brain states.
Re: Looking for God in all the wrong places.
Magnetism exists yet no one has ever seen it.Dontaskme wrote: Well have you ever seen a mind?
Re: Looking for God in all the wrong places.
Yes exactly, now we are getting somewhere.Harbal wrote:Magnetism exists yet no one has ever seen it.Dontaskme wrote: Well have you ever seen a mind?
That's exactly how YOU exist. You exist but no one has ever seen YOU
You cannot see your original face, you only see your reflected face, the fictional you.
That's what nonduality is pointing to in it's message.
Everything is known by it's appearance...but what is known cannot be known by what's appearing, because what's appearing is a fiction.Existence, non-existence, things, words...none of these things can be found to be truly there in an objective way.
Re: Looking for God in all the wrong places.
Well if the mind is a brain state, as seen as the brain- then who's seeing the brain states? Can that seer be seen in the brain state?Terrapin Station wrote:Yes--I've seen brains. Minds are particular brain states.Dontaskme wrote:Well have you ever seen a mind?Terrapin Station wrote:So you're claiming that minds do not exist.
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Re: Looking for God in all the wrong places.
What? Your question is kind of garbled grammatically.Dontaskme wrote:Well if the mind is a brain state, as seen as the brain- then who's seeing the brain states? Can that seer be seen in the brain state?Terrapin Station wrote:Yes--I've seen brains. Minds are particular brain states.Dontaskme wrote:
Well have you ever seen a mind?
You can observe others' brain states, in which case the answer to who is seeing it is the person third-person observing it. But also some brain states are mental states and the person whose brain it is "sees them" in the sense of that being what experiences are/what consciousness is.
Re: Looking for God in all the wrong places.
So are you saying a person can see it's own consciousness in a brain state? via an MRI image ?Terrapin Station wrote: You can observe others' brain states, in which case the answer to who is seeing it is the person third-person observing it. But also some brain states are mental states and the person whose brain it is "sees them" in the sense of that being what experiences are/what consciousness is.
Is that what the mind is, an image?
I'm assuming a person could not have direct experience of their mind and see it that way, we can't look in the brain and see consciousness within the actual organ..so the only other way is via the image.
So if the mind is an image, then who or what is looking at the image of the mind?
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Re: Looking for God in all the wrong places.
Just being conscious is doing this, since what consciousness is is a set of particular brain states.Dontaskme wrote:So are you saying a person can see it's own consciousness in a brain state?
You don't third-person visually observe (someone else's) consciousness experientially, because it's a first-person phenomenon.I'm assuming a person could not have direct experience of their mind and see it that way, we can't look in the brain and see consciousness within the actual organ..
Re: Looking for God in all the wrong places.
So the first person phenomena must be the reference point of I-ness or I am-ness.Terrapin Station wrote:You don't third-person visually observe (someone else's) consciousness experientially, because it's a first-person phenomenon.
And that is what we and everything are, there is here the zero point of observation aka this blank inane empty 'awareness' in which everything arises and falls away.
Therefore, consciousness / awareness is all there is experiencing itself. It's the direct experience of being. There's nothing else outside of that Direct experience. There's nothing actually there/here ...? it's all emptiness appearing as fullness...?
So the world of images are empty at their core essence, because they are projections of the zero point of observation. Images trigger the thought process and suddenly an image becomes a thing solid and real...thought has put those things there.
If you drop all thoughts and memories about an image…what is really there? What is the actual experience?
There are only thoughts ABOUT things, so nothing really exists. And it is only another thought that says there are thoughts thinking about other thoughts. Can thoughts think? Thoughts appear but can you find anyone/anything that is doing the thinking?
There is awareness of thought but awareness is one with the thought. Both empty. There is no individual self. All is one, which equals zero point.
Can you find anyone/anything in a thought, or is a thought just letters and words? Can a thought be confused?
All words like awareness, mind, consciousness, brain, thought... they're just empty ideas, arising here now nowhere, they are not actual real things.
Things are seen by a seerless seer. Known by an unknown knower. The world is made-up...comparable to a dream.
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Re: Looking for God in all the wrong places.
I'm cutting you off where the first big problem occurs:
Maybe you don't intend to give the impression that you believe it follows, but then you're not supporting that "'[I-ness] or [I-am-Ness]' is what we are/what everything is," and it's a ridiculous claim in lieu of support.
there is here the zero point of observation aka this blank inane empty 'awareness' in which everything arises and falls away.
Therefore, consciousness / awareness is all there is experiencing itself. It's the direct experience of being. There's nothing else outside of that Direct experience. There's nothing actually there/here ...? it's all emptiness appearing as fullness...?
So the world of images are empty at their core essence, because they are projections of the zero point of observation. Images trigger the thought process and suddenly an image becomes a thing solid and real...thought has put those things there.
If you drop all thoughts and memories about an image…what is really there? What is the actual experience?
There are only thoughts ABOUT things, so nothing really exists. And it is only another thought that says there are thoughts thinking about other thoughts. Can thoughts think? Thoughts appear but can you find anyone/anything that is doing the thinking?
There is awareness of thought but awareness is one with the thought. Both empty. There is no individual self. All is one, which equals zero point.
Can you find anyone/anything in a thought, or is a thought just letters and words? Can a thought be confused?
All words like awareness, mind, consciousness, brain, thought... they're just empty ideas, arising here now nowhere, they are not actual real things.
Things are seen by a seerless seer. Known by an unknown knower. The world is made-up...comparable to a dream.[/quote]
The second sentence--"And this is what we and everything are" doesn't at all follow from the first sentence there.Dontaskme wrote:So the first person phenomena must be the reference point of I-ness or I am-ness.
And that is what we and everything are,
Maybe you don't intend to give the impression that you believe it follows, but then you're not supporting that "'[I-ness] or [I-am-Ness]' is what we are/what everything is," and it's a ridiculous claim in lieu of support.
there is here the zero point of observation aka this blank inane empty 'awareness' in which everything arises and falls away.
Therefore, consciousness / awareness is all there is experiencing itself. It's the direct experience of being. There's nothing else outside of that Direct experience. There's nothing actually there/here ...? it's all emptiness appearing as fullness...?
So the world of images are empty at their core essence, because they are projections of the zero point of observation. Images trigger the thought process and suddenly an image becomes a thing solid and real...thought has put those things there.
If you drop all thoughts and memories about an image…what is really there? What is the actual experience?
There are only thoughts ABOUT things, so nothing really exists. And it is only another thought that says there are thoughts thinking about other thoughts. Can thoughts think? Thoughts appear but can you find anyone/anything that is doing the thinking?
There is awareness of thought but awareness is one with the thought. Both empty. There is no individual self. All is one, which equals zero point.
Can you find anyone/anything in a thought, or is a thought just letters and words? Can a thought be confused?
All words like awareness, mind, consciousness, brain, thought... they're just empty ideas, arising here now nowhere, they are not actual real things.
Things are seen by a seerless seer. Known by an unknown knower. The world is made-up...comparable to a dream.[/quote]