About the Atheists and Ethics... Why God?

[Necromancer]

What is the story with Atheists and Ethics? What do they believe? We know Atheists are without belief in (any) God which may be good for them if they so dearly want to.

So too, it's true that many religious people believe in God even though God may not be a fact even though "God"/God fulfills a number of hopes and roles as the creator of the Universe if not several Universes/the Multiverse.

Thus we view these two basic views of religion/irreligion as just this, beliefs about given conditions beyond science. That is, it's not for science to be capable of proving or disproving the existence of God. This should be clear. So far so good.

However, with the belief in God comes the belief in Good and Evil or as the Atheists say it, in good and bad. For the Atheists, good can be anything also without any particular moral value. The good for Atheists has a use for them, the good may be ethical or not, whether money from slavetrade or exploitation of people or in fact the ethically good, any.

Now, I've heard the Humanists of the Atheists are quite stringent with what's ethical to them and as a religious guy I think this is good/Good because the Good is what holds the Evil away, generally.

The question is therefore, why don't Atheists name themselves (Secular/Non-Religious) Humanists if they are so concerned with ethics and good and bad because this surely should signal a progressive World by them, a World where crime declines along with other unwanted conditions in the World, like poverty and hunger.

Consequently, I'm curious in knowing what drives the Atheists... What is their ethics as moral compasses in the World? If the religious see the Good driving the Evil away, what standard is it that exalts the Atheists? Are they any good/Good?

I have my doubts! You?

(Thanks for replies!)

[Terrapin Station]

A lot of your post reads a bit confusingly to me, but at any rate:

I'm a subjectivist/emotivist on ethics. In other words, I believe that ethical judgments are essentially "yaying" or "booing" interpersonal behavior. (Note that "interpersonal" can be behavior towards oneself.) It's not just arbitrarily yaying or booing behavior. It's yaying or booing based on "deep"/gut feelings or "intuitions" and instincts, many of which are evolutionarily biased. "Subjective" as I use it, by the way, merely denotes that it's a mental phenomenon, or a brain phenomenon. It doesn't imply anything about whether people are likely to disagree or agree with each other. Every single person could agree, but ethics are still subjectively determined, because those judgments about behavior are brain phenomena. That's all I'm saying by that term (although an upshot is that someone can't be factually incorrect in their judgment, even if they're the only one who makes that particular judgment and 7 billion other people make a different judgment; people can't be factually correct either, rather people are reporting and acting in accordance with how they feel about interpersonal behavior and its upshots).

Re my view above, I'm not saying "that's how I choose to approach ethics," I'm saying that I believe that that's what ethics is for everyone, even if they believe that they're doing something else instead, even if they believe in a God who issues ethical decrees or whatever. What folks are really doing is yaying or booing interpersonal behavior.

[surreptitious57]

The question is therefore why do not Atheists name themselves (Secular/Non Religious) Humanists if they are so concerned with
ethics and good and bad because this surely should signal a progressive World by them a World where crime declines along with
other unwanted conditions in the World like poverty and hunger

Humanism is a subset of atheism. All humanists are atheists but not all atheists are humanists. I am technically both but I
never label myself a humanist for my personal preference is either atheist or apatheist purely for reasons of convenience

Consequently I am curious in knowing what drives the Atheists ... What is their ethics as moral compasses in the World?
If the religious see the Good driving the Evil away what standard is it that exalts the Atheists? Are they any good/Good?

Two things : first of all there is nothing that unites atheists other than their atheism. On all other issues they are as diverse as can be. We are therefore not a homogeneous entity that think the same on moral issues. But secondly whatever our personal views on morality are the source
of that morality is the same for all of us. And not just atheists but all human beings. And the source is psychology. For theists also as the moral codes of all belief systems have their roots in psychology. And specifically evolutionary biology. For without it there would be no morality at all

[Harbal]

What is the story with Atheists and Ethics? What do they believe? We know Atheists are without belief in (any) God which may be good for them if they so dearly want to.

So too, it's true that many religious people believe in God even though God may not be a fact even though "God"/God fulfills a number of hopes and roles as the creator of the Universe if not several Universes/the Multiverse.

Thus we view these two basic views of religion/irreligion as just this, beliefs about given conditions beyond science. That is, it's not for science to be capable of proving or disproving the existence of God. This should be clear. So far so good.

However, with the belief in God comes the belief in Good and Evil or as the Atheists say it, in good and bad. For the Atheists, good can be anything also without any particular moral value. The good for Atheists has a use for them, the good may be ethical or not, whether money from slavetrade or exploitation of people or in fact the ethically good, any.

Now, I've heard the Humanists of the Atheists are quite stringent with what's ethical to them and as a religious guy I think this is good/Good because the Good is what holds the Evil away, generally.

The question is therefore, why don't Atheists name themselves (Secular/Non-Religious) Humanists if they are so concerned with ethics and good and bad because this surely should signal a progressive World by them, a World where crime declines along with other unwanted conditions in the World, like poverty and hunger.

Consequently, I'm curious in knowing what drives the Atheists... What is their ethics as moral compasses in the World? If the religious see the Good driving the Evil away, what standard is it that exalts the Atheists? Are they any good/Good?

I have my doubts! You?

(Thanks for replies!)

Necromancer, you just sound like an idiot looking for an argument.

[HexHammer]

Atheists are atheists because religious people never can come up with a coherent and convincing argumentation for their religion.

Necromancer can you come up with a 100% convincing sales pitch for your religion?

[Lacewing]

All people have a vast range of ways they can think and be, regardless of the existence or non-existence of certain beliefs. Believing in a god may inspire some people to strive for a higher standard, but most do not (as they seem to think the belief is doing it for them). Having NO belief in a god does not indicate anything about what a person is capable of or motivated to do. Many people who identify themselves as atheists are extraordinarily good and kind and "naturally spiritual". We all have access to the kind of awareness and intuition that directs us along paths that are "good" and "bad".

I think it's actually more impressive when an atheist chooses their path from the most beautiful place in their heart... as opposed to a theist who might be doing it to please a god and their peers.

[thedoc]

It is my understanding that most Atheists base their ethics on harm to others, in that if an action hurts another person, they refrain. I know there are complex situations that some will quote to prove things one way or the other, but an Atheist will take each situation and assess it according to what they know of the situation.

[sthitapragya]

Now, I've heard the Humanists of the Atheists are quite stringent with what's ethical to them and as a religious guy I think this is good/Good because the Good is what holds the Evil away, generally.

The question is therefore, why don't Atheists name themselves (Secular/Non-Religious) Humanists if they are so concerned with ethics and good and bad because this surely should signal a progressive World by them, a World where crime declines along with other unwanted conditions in the World, like poverty and hunger.

Consequently, I'm curious in knowing what drives the Atheists... What is their ethics as moral compasses in the World? If the religious see the Good driving the Evil away, what standard is it that exalts the Atheists? Are they any good/Good?

I have my doubts! You?

(Thanks for replies!)

Your post reeks of discrimination and bigotry. You have to understand that ethics are common sense. They have nothing to do with religious belief. You might not have the ability to figure out good and bad and need some ancient book to tell you, but most humans are capable of figuring it out for themselves. It is not rocket science. Ethics are based on how society reacts to a particular behaviour. If the reaction is good, it needs to be adopted and if the reaction is bad, it needs to be discarded. Simple as that. You don't even have to try out something. People are doing it all the time. Just studying human behaviour gives you a concept of ethics. It is a natural thing which anyone can learn.

Atheism is simply a rejection of the God hypothesis made by theists. That is all there is to it. And Ethics are not born out of religion or belief in God so ethics have nothing to do with theism or atheism. So it is not atheists or theists who are concerned with ethics. It is human beings independent of their religious beliefs who are concerned with ethics.

[Hobbes' Choice]

The emotions are the most basic substrate of the human experience. As evolved gregarious animals a sense of care and fellowship is as natural to a human as hunger it.
It is from that basis that all ethical systems have grown. Far from ethics stemming from religion; religion is nothing more than several types of ethical systems, that have grown to control decision making in otherwise free thinking humans, who shall without fail develop ethics as naturally as develop cuisine.

It is no wonder that free from the constraints of religious dogma, atheists are free to construct what systems are necessary for living, free that is from the necessity of the false promise of eternity and the bribes and blackmail inherent in that false promise.

[HexHammer]

Your post reeks of discrimination and bigotry. You have to understand that ethics are common sense. They have nothing to do with religious belief. You might not have the ability to figure out good and bad and need some ancient book to tell you, but most humans are capable of figuring it out for themselves. It is not rocket science. Ethics are based on how society reacts to a particular behaviour. If the reaction is good, it needs to be adopted and if the reaction is bad, it needs to be discarded. Simple as that. You don't even have to try out something. People are doing it all the time. Just studying human behaviour gives you a concept of ethics. It is a natural thing which anyone can learn.

Most people can't figure it out themselves, it's due to culture and a good adiministration that we have law, order, ethics and morals.

If you see in some prisons they live by the jungle law, "might makes righ", there the ethics and morals are quite different.

Many western countries abhore death penalty, because they know innocent lives will be lost, it's estimated that least 4% innocent people are in prison.

Prisoners are treated vastly different around the world, some are tortured just because the guards like it, others reject torture because it's abomniable.

Decades ago it was unthinkable that westerners would bomb hospitals, but now it's a common thing.

[Necromancer]

I just say that Atheists are dangerous people because they lack the moral compass of religion that both rewards (Heaven etc.) and threatens with punishment (fear of Hell etc.).

How powerful can "stamp collecting" be in providing a moral compass? Isn't a moral mistake to an Atheist just another mistake?

Aren't Atheists more likely to torture other people out of sheer pleasure? Aren't Atheists dangerous people?

I think they are. However, I like the Humanists. Please, remember that there are Religious Humanists as well.

[henry quirk]

"Aren't Atheists dangerous people?"

No more than any other, mebbe less.

After all: it ain't atheists prayin' to Mecca at noon then shootin' up a mall at one.

[thedoc]

I just say that Atheists are dangerous people because they lack the moral compass of religion that both rewards (Heaven etc.) and threatens with punishment (fear of Hell etc.).

How powerful can "stamp collecting" be in providing a moral compass? Isn't a moral mistake to an Atheist just another mistake?

Aren't Atheists more likely to torture other people out of sheer pleasure? Aren't Atheists dangerous people?

I think they are. However, I like the Humanists. Please, remember that there are Religious Humanists as well.

At least someone is getting pleasure out of torturing, religious people do it because the non believer deserves it, but the religious person isn't alowed to enjoy it.

The comment about Atheists lacking a moral compass is false, Atheists use a moral compass of doing no harm to others, which is better than some religions preach.

Your comments seem to be based on a misrepresentation of what Atheists say they believe.

[Necromancer]

...The comment about Atheists lacking a moral compass is false, Atheists use a moral compass of doing no harm to others, which is better than some religions preach...

No, they are the Humanists! How powerful can "stamp collecting" be in providing a moral compass? Isn't a moral mistake to an Atheist just another mistake?

[sthitapragya]

I just say that Atheists are dangerous people because they lack the moral compass of religion that both rewards (Heaven etc.) and threatens with punishment (fear of Hell etc.).

What you basically mean is that you would rape and torture if you found out that there was no God and no punishment. It is the fear of God and the punishment which prevents you from doing these things. Thank God you are not an atheist. Just keep believing in God otherwise you will end up in prison.