How God could fail to convey His message?
How God could fail to convey His message?
We believe that God is omniscient and omnipotent. This means that there should be one true religion. There are about 4000 religions. How God could fail to convey his message?
- Hobbes' Choice
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Re: How God could fail to convey His message?
What do you mean "god", and what does he have to do with religion?bahman wrote:We believe that God is omniscient and omnipotent. This means that there should be one true religion. There are about 4000 religions. How God could fail to convey his message?
Re: How God could fail to convey His message?
God is the creator of universe who is omniscient and omnipotent. Religion is a system of faith.Hobbes' Choice wrote:What do you mean "god", and what does he have to do with religion?bahman wrote: We believe that God is omniscient and omnipotent. This means that there should be one true religion. There are about 4000 religions. How God could fail to convey his message?
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Re: How God could fail to convey His message?
You've not answered the question.bahman wrote:God is the creator of universe who is omniscient and omnipotent. Religion is a system of faith.Hobbes' Choice wrote:What do you mean "god", and what does he have to do with religion?bahman wrote: We believe that God is omniscient and omnipotent. This means that there should be one true religion. There are about 4000 religions. How God could fail to convey his message?
Let's say there is such a thing as god as you describe; why would such a being have a "message" and why would that entail a religion?
Re: How God could fail to convey His message?
To inform people that He exists, He created universe and He has a purpose for creation.Hobbes' Choice wrote:You've not answered the question.bahman wrote:God is the creator of universe who is omniscient and omnipotent. Religion is a system of faith.Hobbes' Choice wrote: What do you mean "god", and what does he have to do with religion?
Let's say there is such a thing as god as you describe; why would such a being have a "message" and why would that entail a religion?
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Re: How God could fail to convey His message?
What makes you think he would want to inform mere humans about his purpose. An given that he is omnipotent and omniscient it would seem a ridiculous thing to do really. What good would it do god; in fact why would any omni-god want anything. Surely the whole point of omnipotence would mean freedom from want and desire.bahman wrote:To inform people that He exists, He created universe and He has a purpose for creation.Hobbes' Choice wrote:You've not answered the question.bahman wrote:
God is the creator of universe who is omniscient and omnipotent. Religion is a system of faith.
Let's say there is such a thing as god as you describe; why would such a being have a "message" and why would that entail a religion?
What we have has to be gods design exactly how it it: faults and all. An omni-god has no cares, and must have known exactly how the world was going to turn out since the beginning of time; that's what omniscience means.
So your original problem is no problem at all.
Re: How God could fail to convey His message?
God has a purpose for creation. Doesn't He?Hobbes' Choice wrote: What makes you think he would want to inform mere humans about his purpose.
Want anything. That is part of question.Hobbes' Choice wrote: An given that he is omnipotent and omniscient it would seem a ridiculous thing to do really. What good would it do god; in fact why would any omni-god want anything.
Freedom form want and desire is not related to omnipotence. I agree with you that God cannot have any desire. I am not sure about want. He for example might want to share His love.Hobbes' Choice wrote: Surely the whole point of omnipotence would mean freedom from want and desire.
So what?Hobbes' Choice wrote: What we have has to be gods design exactly how it it: faults and all. An omni-god has no cares, and must have known exactly how the world was going to turn out since the beginning of time; that's what omniscience means.
There is a problem. Not for you, since it seems that you don't believe in God.Hobbes' Choice wrote: So your original problem is no problem at all.
Re: How God could fail to convey His message?
God may have conveyed a message to men, but men are imperfect and have corrupted that message over the years. Inspiration by God, is just a phrase to lull followers into believing that the leadership of a church has the correct message. Current religions have little to do with the belief in God, but more to do with crowd control.
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Re: How God could fail to convey His message?
bahman wrote:God has a purpose for creation. Doesn't He?Hobbes' Choice wrote: What makes you think he would want to inform mere humans about his purpose.
Does he? Says who? If he is omniscient and omnipotent and so on why would he need anything?
Want anything. That is part of question.Hobbes' Choice wrote: An given that he is omnipotent and omniscient it would seem a ridiculous thing to do really. What good would it do god; in fact why would any omni-god want anything.
You are assuming a thing for which you have no warrant, and certainly no evidence.
Freedom form want and desire is not related to omnipotence. I agree with you that God cannot have any desire. I am not sure about want. He for example might want to share His love.Hobbes' Choice wrote: Surely the whole point of omnipotence would mean freedom from want and desire.
How can he be all powerful if he has needs. Surely being omnipotent means not showing or having any kind of weakness. If he wants to share, then he is lacking. That is a contradiction of his omni-ness.
I don't think you are thinking this through properly.
So what?Hobbes' Choice wrote: What we have has to be gods design exactly how it it: faults and all. An omni-god has no cares, and must have known exactly how the world was going to turn out since the beginning of time; that's what omniscience means.
Dah! "What" has to mean that the situation we have now, is exactly what god wants, as being omniscient he has designed the universe exactly the way he wants it.
There is a problem. Not for you, since it seems that you don't believe in God.Hobbes' Choice wrote: So your original problem is no problem at all.
No. I am simply pointing out that your problem only exists because of what you believe ABOUT god. Either your view, or your conception of god, or the characteristics of god make no sense. Take your pick!
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Re: How God could fail to convey His message?
How or why does a perfect omnipotent god, create imperfect humans. And if they "have his message wrong" that that has to be by gods design as he is omniscient and perfect.thedoc wrote:God may have conveyed a message to men, but men are imperfect and have corrupted that message over the years. Inspiration by God, is just a phrase to lull followers into believing that the leadership of a church has the correct message. Current religions have little to do with the belief in God, but more to do with crowd control.
SO what we have now, is exactly to the design of god. You have only to pursue your desires (as they are from gods design) to fulfil his intentions. Ignoring your most bases desires goes against nature and therefore against god.
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Re: How God could fail to convey His message?
So what, logically, does this tell you about the current plethora religious dogmas?bahman wrote:We believe that God is omniscient and omnipotent. This means that there should be one true religion. There are about 4000 religions. How God could fail to convey his message?
Re: How God could fail to convey His message?
Yes it's true that some religions, (almost all of them) preach that humans are corrupted form how God created them, but I do not accept that as completely true. God created humans to be as they are, and those who try to deny human nature, are trying to subvert God's design to suit their own corrupted ideas of how humans should behave.Hobbes' Choice wrote:How or why does a perfect omnipotent god, create imperfect humans. And if they "have his message wrong" that that has to be by gods design as he is omniscient and perfect.thedoc wrote:God may have conveyed a message to men, but men are imperfect and have corrupted that message over the years. Inspiration by God, is just a phrase to lull followers into believing that the leadership of a church has the correct message. Current religions have little to do with the belief in God, but more to do with crowd control.
SO what we have now, is exactly to the design of god. You have only to pursue your desires (as they are from gods design) to fulfil his intentions. Ignoring your most bases desires goes against nature and therefore against god.
- SpheresOfBalance
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Re: How God could fail to convey His message?
This is a very good way for murderers to believe they have a right to keep on murdering; god made them that way? How utterly deluded and psychotic is that?thedoc wrote:Yes it's true that some religions, (almost all of them) preach that humans are corrupted form how God created them, but I do not accept that as completely true. God created humans to be as they are, and those who try to deny human nature, are trying to subvert God's design to suit their own corrupted ideas of how humans should behave.Hobbes' Choice wrote:How or why does a perfect omnipotent god, create imperfect humans. And if they "have his message wrong" that that has to be by gods design as he is omniscient and perfect.thedoc wrote:God may have conveyed a message to men, but men are imperfect and have corrupted that message over the years. Inspiration by God, is just a phrase to lull followers into believing that the leadership of a church has the correct message. Current religions have little to do with the belief in God, but more to do with crowd control.
SO what we have now, is exactly to the design of god. You have only to pursue your desires (as they are from gods design) to fulfil his intentions. Ignoring your most bases desires goes against nature and therefore against god.
Re: How God could fail to convey His message?
The extremes do not justify the mean. Your argument is ridiculous and totally outside the norm, which only proves that you are deluded and psychotic.SpheresOfBalance wrote: This is a very good way for murderers to believe they have a right to keep on murdering; god made them that way? How utterly deluded and psychotic is that?
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Re: How God could fail to convey His message?
Search far deeper for my meaning, on an infinite scale, I just outlined the worst case scenario. Of course your concept has it's best case scenario as well, with all those billions of permutations in between.thedoc wrote:The extremes do not justify the mean. Your argument is ridiculous and totally outside the norm, which only proves that you are deluded and psychotic.SpheresOfBalance wrote: This is a very good way for murderers to believe they have a right to keep on murdering; god made them that way? How utterly deluded and psychotic is that?
You're just mad because you've used such a concept to get by. No not the worst or best case, somewhere in between, BUT IT'S STILL JUST AS TWISTED! I can do this because god made me this way, ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME???????
LEARNING AND THEN CHANGE IS THE ANSWER, as it's the free will within the frame of determinism. He that doesn't try and change his messed up ways, likes them far too much to be a real intelligent human!!!
As a psychologist said to me once, "knowing the problem is half the battle."