How God could fail to convey His message?

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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bahman
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How God could fail to convey His message?

Post by bahman » Fri Aug 19, 2016 3:39 pm

We believe that God is omniscient and omnipotent. This means that there should be one true religion. There are about 4000 religions. How God could fail to convey his message?

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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: How God could fail to convey His message?

Post by Hobbes' Choice » Fri Aug 19, 2016 3:46 pm

bahman wrote:We believe that God is omniscient and omnipotent. This means that there should be one true religion. There are about 4000 religions. How God could fail to convey his message?
What do you mean "god", and what does he have to do with religion?

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bahman
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Re: How God could fail to convey His message?

Post by bahman » Fri Aug 19, 2016 4:03 pm

Hobbes' Choice wrote:
bahman wrote: We believe that God is omniscient and omnipotent. This means that there should be one true religion. There are about 4000 religions. How God could fail to convey his message?
What do you mean "god", and what does he have to do with religion?
God is the creator of universe who is omniscient and omnipotent. Religion is a system of faith.

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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: How God could fail to convey His message?

Post by Hobbes' Choice » Fri Aug 19, 2016 4:13 pm

bahman wrote:
Hobbes' Choice wrote:
bahman wrote: We believe that God is omniscient and omnipotent. This means that there should be one true religion. There are about 4000 religions. How God could fail to convey his message?
What do you mean "god", and what does he have to do with religion?
God is the creator of universe who is omniscient and omnipotent. Religion is a system of faith.
You've not answered the question.

Let's say there is such a thing as god as you describe; why would such a being have a "message" and why would that entail a religion?

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bahman
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Re: How God could fail to convey His message?

Post by bahman » Fri Aug 19, 2016 4:23 pm

Hobbes' Choice wrote:
bahman wrote:
Hobbes' Choice wrote: What do you mean "god", and what does he have to do with religion?
God is the creator of universe who is omniscient and omnipotent. Religion is a system of faith.
You've not answered the question.

Let's say there is such a thing as god as you describe; why would such a being have a "message" and why would that entail a religion?
To inform people that He exists, He created universe and He has a purpose for creation.

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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: How God could fail to convey His message?

Post by Hobbes' Choice » Fri Aug 19, 2016 4:46 pm

bahman wrote:
Hobbes' Choice wrote:
bahman wrote:
God is the creator of universe who is omniscient and omnipotent. Religion is a system of faith.
You've not answered the question.

Let's say there is such a thing as god as you describe; why would such a being have a "message" and why would that entail a religion?
To inform people that He exists, He created universe and He has a purpose for creation.
What makes you think he would want to inform mere humans about his purpose. An given that he is omnipotent and omniscient it would seem a ridiculous thing to do really. What good would it do god; in fact why would any omni-god want anything. Surely the whole point of omnipotence would mean freedom from want and desire.
What we have has to be gods design exactly how it it: faults and all. An omni-god has no cares, and must have known exactly how the world was going to turn out since the beginning of time; that's what omniscience means.
So your original problem is no problem at all.

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bahman
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Re: How God could fail to convey His message?

Post by bahman » Fri Aug 19, 2016 5:20 pm

Hobbes' Choice wrote: What makes you think he would want to inform mere humans about his purpose.
God has a purpose for creation. Doesn't He?
Hobbes' Choice wrote: An given that he is omnipotent and omniscient it would seem a ridiculous thing to do really. What good would it do god; in fact why would any omni-god want anything.
Want anything. That is part of question.
Hobbes' Choice wrote: Surely the whole point of omnipotence would mean freedom from want and desire.
Freedom form want and desire is not related to omnipotence. I agree with you that God cannot have any desire. I am not sure about want. He for example might want to share His love.
Hobbes' Choice wrote: What we have has to be gods design exactly how it it: faults and all. An omni-god has no cares, and must have known exactly how the world was going to turn out since the beginning of time; that's what omniscience means.
So what?
Hobbes' Choice wrote: So your original problem is no problem at all.
There is a problem. Not for you, since it seems that you don't believe in God.

thedoc
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Re: How God could fail to convey His message?

Post by thedoc » Fri Aug 19, 2016 6:15 pm

God may have conveyed a message to men, but men are imperfect and have corrupted that message over the years. Inspiration by God, is just a phrase to lull followers into believing that the leadership of a church has the correct message. Current religions have little to do with the belief in God, but more to do with crowd control.

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Re: How God could fail to convey His message?

Post by Hobbes' Choice » Fri Aug 19, 2016 7:43 pm

bahman wrote:
Hobbes' Choice wrote: What makes you think he would want to inform mere humans about his purpose.
God has a purpose for creation. Doesn't He?

Does he? Says who? If he is omniscient and omnipotent and so on why would he need anything?


Hobbes' Choice wrote: An given that he is omnipotent and omniscient it would seem a ridiculous thing to do really. What good would it do god; in fact why would any omni-god want anything.
Want anything. That is part of question.

You are assuming a thing for which you have no warrant, and certainly no evidence.

Hobbes' Choice wrote: Surely the whole point of omnipotence would mean freedom from want and desire.
Freedom form want and desire is not related to omnipotence. I agree with you that God cannot have any desire. I am not sure about want. He for example might want to share His love.

How can he be all powerful if he has needs. Surely being omnipotent means not showing or having any kind of weakness. If he wants to share, then he is lacking. That is a contradiction of his omni-ness.
I don't think you are thinking this through properly.

Hobbes' Choice wrote: What we have has to be gods design exactly how it it: faults and all. An omni-god has no cares, and must have known exactly how the world was going to turn out since the beginning of time; that's what omniscience means.
So what?

Dah! "What" has to mean that the situation we have now, is exactly what god wants, as being omniscient he has designed the universe exactly the way he wants it.

Hobbes' Choice wrote: So your original problem is no problem at all.
There is a problem. Not for you, since it seems that you don't believe in God.

No. I am simply pointing out that your problem only exists because of what you believe ABOUT god. Either your view, or your conception of god, or the characteristics of god make no sense. Take your pick!

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Re: How God could fail to convey His message?

Post by Hobbes' Choice » Fri Aug 19, 2016 7:46 pm

thedoc wrote:God may have conveyed a message to men, but men are imperfect and have corrupted that message over the years. Inspiration by God, is just a phrase to lull followers into believing that the leadership of a church has the correct message. Current religions have little to do with the belief in God, but more to do with crowd control.
How or why does a perfect omnipotent god, create imperfect humans. And if they "have his message wrong" that that has to be by gods design as he is omniscient and perfect.
SO what we have now, is exactly to the design of god. You have only to pursue your desires (as they are from gods design) to fulfil his intentions. Ignoring your most bases desires goes against nature and therefore against god.

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Re: How God could fail to convey His message?

Post by SpheresOfBalance » Fri Aug 19, 2016 8:35 pm

bahman wrote:We believe that God is omniscient and omnipotent. This means that there should be one true religion. There are about 4000 religions. How God could fail to convey his message?
So what, logically, does this tell you about the current plethora religious dogmas?

thedoc
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Re: How God could fail to convey His message?

Post by thedoc » Fri Aug 19, 2016 9:28 pm

Hobbes' Choice wrote:
thedoc wrote:God may have conveyed a message to men, but men are imperfect and have corrupted that message over the years. Inspiration by God, is just a phrase to lull followers into believing that the leadership of a church has the correct message. Current religions have little to do with the belief in God, but more to do with crowd control.
How or why does a perfect omnipotent god, create imperfect humans. And if they "have his message wrong" that that has to be by gods design as he is omniscient and perfect.
SO what we have now, is exactly to the design of god. You have only to pursue your desires (as they are from gods design) to fulfil his intentions. Ignoring your most bases desires goes against nature and therefore against god.
Yes it's true that some religions, (almost all of them) preach that humans are corrupted form how God created them, but I do not accept that as completely true. God created humans to be as they are, and those who try to deny human nature, are trying to subvert God's design to suit their own corrupted ideas of how humans should behave.

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Re: How God could fail to convey His message?

Post by SpheresOfBalance » Fri Aug 19, 2016 9:44 pm

thedoc wrote:
Hobbes' Choice wrote:
thedoc wrote:God may have conveyed a message to men, but men are imperfect and have corrupted that message over the years. Inspiration by God, is just a phrase to lull followers into believing that the leadership of a church has the correct message. Current religions have little to do with the belief in God, but more to do with crowd control.
How or why does a perfect omnipotent god, create imperfect humans. And if they "have his message wrong" that that has to be by gods design as he is omniscient and perfect.
SO what we have now, is exactly to the design of god. You have only to pursue your desires (as they are from gods design) to fulfil his intentions. Ignoring your most bases desires goes against nature and therefore against god.
Yes it's true that some religions, (almost all of them) preach that humans are corrupted form how God created them, but I do not accept that as completely true. God created humans to be as they are, and those who try to deny human nature, are trying to subvert God's design to suit their own corrupted ideas of how humans should behave.
This is a very good way for murderers to believe they have a right to keep on murdering; god made them that way? How utterly deluded and psychotic is that?

thedoc
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Re: How God could fail to convey His message?

Post by thedoc » Fri Aug 19, 2016 10:29 pm

SpheresOfBalance wrote: This is a very good way for murderers to believe they have a right to keep on murdering; god made them that way? How utterly deluded and psychotic is that?
The extremes do not justify the mean. Your argument is ridiculous and totally outside the norm, which only proves that you are deluded and psychotic.

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Re: How God could fail to convey His message?

Post by SpheresOfBalance » Fri Aug 19, 2016 11:00 pm

thedoc wrote:
SpheresOfBalance wrote: This is a very good way for murderers to believe they have a right to keep on murdering; god made them that way? How utterly deluded and psychotic is that?
The extremes do not justify the mean. Your argument is ridiculous and totally outside the norm, which only proves that you are deluded and psychotic.
Search far deeper for my meaning, on an infinite scale, I just outlined the worst case scenario. Of course your concept has it's best case scenario as well, with all those billions of permutations in between.

You're just mad because you've used such a concept to get by. No not the worst or best case, somewhere in between, BUT IT'S STILL JUST AS TWISTED! I can do this because god made me this way, ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME???????

LEARNING AND THEN CHANGE IS THE ANSWER, as it's the free will within the frame of determinism. He that doesn't try and change his messed up ways, likes them far too much to be a real intelligent human!!!

As a psychologist said to me once, "knowing the problem is half the battle."

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