Are all believers in God automatically idol worshipers?

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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Greatest I am
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Re: Are all believers in God automatically idol worshipers?

Post by Greatest I am »

seeds wrote:
[quote="Bill Donahue from the video "Hidden Meanings in Bible""]
“...the zodiac is real, it’s true...I’m not talking about fortune telling or nonsense. The zodiac is the twelve signs of man -
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[/quote]

You forget the 13th.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ophiuchus_(astrology)

Regards
DL
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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: Are all believers in God automatically idol worshipers?

Post by Hobbes' Choice »

seeds wrote:
Hobbes' Choice wrote:
seeds wrote:
Indeed, I suggest that the “CEO” of the universe has delegated the creation of human bodies to the mechanistic workings inherent in suns, cells, and DNA – workings that can sometimes misfire and go awry.
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COP out.
How so?
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God of the gaps fantasy.
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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: Are all believers in God automatically idol worshipers?

Post by Hobbes' Choice »

seeds wrote: Image

...which, by sheer chance, just so happens to be the “perfect setting and platform” upon which the essence of life could then “effloresce” from the very fabric of the setting itself.
In a universe with a billion galaxies, all having a billion stars, Goldilocks is going to get lucky somewhere.
seeds
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Re: Are all believers in God automatically idol worshipers?

Post by seeds »

Greatest I am wrote:
seeds wrote:
[quote="Bill Donahue from the video "Hidden Meanings in Bible""]
“...the zodiac is real, it’s true...I’m not talking about fortune telling or nonsense. The zodiac is the twelve signs of man -
_______
You forget the 13th.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ophiuchus_(astrology)

Regards
DL[/quote]
Huh? :?

What kind of strange non sequitur is that?

I mean, why in the world would you accuse me of forgetting some alleged 13th sign of the zodiac when I was simply quoting the words of someone that you personally chose to support the reason for your atheism...

...someone who, ironically, seems to believe in the existence of God?

Furthermore, to readdress one of your earlier complaints:
seeds wrote: Unfortunately, your materialistically-oriented (nihilistic) outlook on our situation is preventing you from considering the idea that at the moment of death, the “soul” (i.e., the real reason for the creation of the body in the first place) is going to be “birthed” out of the body and into a new and transcendent form and context...
Greatest I am wrote:
Really?

You give an unproven fantasy and chastise me for not accepting it. Pffft.
Just to set the record straight, clearly I never chastised you for not accepting my unprovable fantasies.

No, I was chastising you for your use of humiliating insults aimed at other humans who (for reasons beyond their control) are still under the thrall of the religious indoctrination (“brainwashing”) they received since early childhood.

Forgive me for being blunt, DL, but your apparent inability to recognize the “child-like innocence” of humans who, unlike you, have not been able to free themselves from their initial “programming,” speaks volumes about the lack of wisdom that your “Gnostic Christianity” is imparting to you.
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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: Are all believers in God automatically idol worshipers?

Post by Hobbes' Choice »

Astrology is for morons.
Does not matter is the zodiac is divided by 14,13, 12 or 360: it's all arbitrary bullshit.
seeds
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Re: Are all believers in God automatically idol worshipers?

Post by seeds »

Hobbes' Choice wrote:
seeds wrote:
Hobbes' Choice wrote:
COP out.
How so?
_______
God of the gaps fantasy.
Oh come on now Hobbes, the “God of the gaps” argument has nothing whatsoever to do with the point I was making to DL.

Please reread the post and tell me precisely what “gap” I was attempting to fill-in with God? -

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=19340&start=210#p284825
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seeds
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Re: Are all believers in God automatically idol worshipers?

Post by seeds »

Hobbes' Choice wrote:
seeds wrote: Image

...which, by sheer chance, just so happens to be the “perfect setting and platform” upon which the essence of life could then “effloresce” from the very fabric of the setting itself.
In a universe with a billion galaxies, all having a billion stars, Goldilocks is going to get lucky somewhere.
I guess I didn’t realize that I was asking for volunteers when I stated the following:

Image

“...The mind boggling thought that someone could believe that the unthinkably complex array of ingredients and processes implicit in the image above, along with its impossible stability could have simply “created itself” without the slightest hint of guidance or teleological impetus, is utterly ridiculous...”

Are you the “someone” I was alluding to? :D

I can find little agreement on the estimations of how many stars there are in the universe. Some say 10^24, which is vastly more than the number you offered. However, for simple visualization purposes, I usually stick with an old estimate of a hundred billion galaxies with each containing a hundred billion stars.

The “Goldilocks” argument you are using is just an infant version of the fully-grown nonsense that materialists use when they suggest the existence of a “Multiverse” to explain why our universe is the way it is.

In other words, if a near infinite number of universes exist, then the “odds” are that at least one of the perhaps 10^500 of them is going to be “lucky” enough to possess the right conditions to give rise to us.

In my opinion, it’s bad enough to think that a hundred billion – times – a hundred billion fusion dynamos (suns) are just uselessly frittering away their energy in just this one universe alone.

However, the thought that an infinite number of universes themselves are simply frittering away their contents, is beyond all stretches of logic or believability.

Which raises the question, that if it requires an unthinkably specific and precise alignment of finely-tuned physiological parameters in order for suns and planets to even form (i.e., the “lucky” reason for our existence), then in what form do the other 10^500 universes exist in?

In other words, in what way are they “universes” if they do not consist of suns and planets similar to this one?

This all just goes to demonstrate that when it comes to determining how the order of the universe came to be, that some humans are willing to accept absolutely anything - no matter how absurd or implausible - just as long as it does not involve the possibility that the universe could be the product of a higher intelligence.
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Re: Are all believers in God automatically idol worshipers?

Post by Philosophy Explorer »

Seeds,

Not knocking what you said as science is fluid. This article gives the latest estimate as to how many galaxies there are:

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/ ... we-thought

This may influence somebody's thinking about aliens.

PhilX
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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: Are all believers in God automatically idol worshipers?

Post by Hobbes' Choice »

seeds wrote:
Hobbes' Choice wrote:
seeds wrote: How so?
_______
God of the gaps fantasy.
Oh come on now Hobbes, the “God of the gaps” argument has nothing whatsoever to do with the point I was making to DL.

Please reread the post and tell me precisely what “gap” I was attempting to fill-in with God? -_

You said "Indeed, I suggest that the “CEO” of the universe has delegated the creation of human bodies to the mechanistic workings inherent in suns, cells, and DNA – workings that can sometimes misfire and go awry."

This is total flim-flam for which you have exactly ZERO evidence. You try what a million other lost souls do, when they realise how absurd is the concept of god: they try to shoehorn it into some mangled version of its former self made ridiculous by science, ending up with a chewed up absurdity which tries to fill in the gaps of your own disquiet, rather than take the courageous step of rejecting the concept entirely, which you should find makes more sense overall.

You are applying a modern analogy "CEO" where the ancients used to use shepherd, or Lord. What you have is a CEO that does no work, and has no function. QED, you do not have a god in your thinking at all.

This is classic god of the gaps.
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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: Are all believers in God automatically idol worshipers?

Post by Hobbes' Choice »

seeds wrote:
Hobbes' Choice wrote:
seeds wrote: Image

...which, by sheer chance, just so happens to be the “perfect setting and platform” upon which the essence of life could then “effloresce” from the very fabric of the setting itself.
In a universe with a billion galaxies, all having a billion stars, Goldilocks is going to get lucky somewhere.
I guess I didn’t realize that I was asking for volunteers when I stated the following:

Image
_
It's of no importance.
seeds
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Re: Are all believers in God automatically idol worshipers?

Post by seeds »

Philosophy Explorer wrote:
Seeds,

Not knocking what you said as science is fluid. This article gives the latest estimate as to how many galaxies there are:

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/ ... we-thought
Hi PhilX,

Okay, thanks for the link.
Philosophy Explorer wrote: This may influence somebody's thinking about aliens.
Nah, it is highly unlikely that the knowledge of the existence of an even greater number of solar systems would have any effect on the “show me the proof” crowd.

I learned a long time ago that even for the simple purpose of imaginative speculation (or just for sheer fun, for that matter), that it is impossible to reason with a closed-minded person.

(Of course I'm not suggesting that you find any of those types on an Internet philosophy forum. :P)
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Re: Are all believers in God automatically idol worshipers?

Post by Philosophy Explorer »

seeds wrote:
Philosophy Explorer wrote:
Seeds,

Not knocking what you said as science is fluid. This article gives the latest estimate as to how many galaxies there are:

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/ ... we-thought
Hi PhilX,

Okay, thanks for the link.
Philosophy Explorer wrote: This may influence somebody's thinking about aliens.
Nah, it is highly unlikely that the knowledge of the existence of an even greater number of solar systems would have any effect on the “show me the proof” crowd.

I learned a long time ago that even for the simple purpose of imaginative speculation (or just for sheer fun, for that matter), that it is impossible to reason with a closed-minded person.

(Of course I'm not suggesting that you find any of those types on an Internet philosophy forum. :P)
_______
I figure the more planets, the greater the chance.

PhilX
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Re: Are all believers in God automatically idol worshipers?

Post by Hobbes' Choice »

Earth is unusual to have such a nearby large satellite.
In fact it will be unique though a few similar worlds may exist.
Due to a massive collision the earth became a water world with land. This itself has low probability.

If life can only follow a similar pas to out own, as it might, Life shall begin aquatically. It is thought that without the Moon, life might never has emerged at all, and if it did, without the moon it would have stayed aquatic.
It's all about rock-pools and the constant action of the tides which provides a constant challenge to survival and an encouragement to traits that favour land living to thrive. For millions of years life was stuck at the margins of the land before it made the journey to the surface.
Without this evolutionary pressure, land living (if land exists on other planets in the goldilocks zone) would take billions, not millions of years to emerge from the sea.
It is unlikely that aquatic civilisations would ever look outwards to the stars
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