Awakening

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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sthitapragya
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Re: Awakening

Post by sthitapragya »

Nick_A wrote:Arising, you simply don't know what awakenng means. You deny it with such dedication that you will only ever experience it by accident. Awakening refers to a change in states of being. What we normally call being awake is simply conditioned responses to external stimuli. Sometimes we are aware of it but usually we just react on automatic pilot. Conscious self awareness is not necessary for our everyday lives. We are primarily governed by habits.

A person may have been conditioned to believe Jim Jones is God and joined a cult to worship this god. Then for some reason the cult loses its hold and a person escapes to freedom. Later, depending upon circumstances they may avoid even the thought of God and become an atheist. The person didn't awaken. For some reason new influences entered their psyche and their conditioning changed. The same conditioned level just adapted. Adaptation isn't awakening. Awakening refers to the conscious experience of levels of reality of which we are a part but asleep to. Buddha saw past lives from higher consciousness experiencing the lower in the flow of time we call human existence. This is an experience normal for a change in the state of being that includes conscious self awareness: the conscious higher experiencing the mechanical lower.
unfortunately, you, me and Arising are in the same boat. We all in the comfort of our homes discussing awakening. The only difference is that Arising and I have no wish to awaken. You do. But you are still at home. So though you talk about it, till you leave the coop you know as much about awakening as I do, or Arising does or Jon Snow does.
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Dontaskme
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Re: Awakening

Post by Dontaskme »

sthitapragya wrote: unfortunately, you, me and Arising are in the same boat. We all in the comfort of our homes discussing awakening. The only difference is that Arising and I have no wish to awaken. You do. But you are still at home. So though you talk about it, till you leave the coop you know as much about awakening as I do, or Arising does or Jon Snow does.


"Awakening" is not an understanding.

Awakening is the falling away of (apparent) separation (for no one).

No one can experience their own absence OR presence in the eternal singular flow of now and now and now ....that never began or ended.

The present is all there is, ALWAYS THIS NOW (for no one).

This is infinity expressing itself infinitely. The idea of existence for no one is beyond the realm of conceptualisation.

The way conceptual thought reconciles it's conflicting beliefs is to label the confusion a paradox.

There is no such thing as a paradox.

This is the only home there is. There is no other home. How can one leave home, everywhere and nowhere is home.

The 'awakening' is TO the dream, not FROM it.

Life is a dream dreamt by no one.
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Dontaskme
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Re: Awakening

Post by Dontaskme »

sthitapragya wrote: You just make grandiose declarations which contradict each other and it is simply boring, tiring and irritating. Even the language you use is in contradiction with your own theory. If you can talk like a normal human, you will be welcome. But please stop trying to shove your completely ridiculous theory on me. I am not interested in discussing it AT ALL. I am not even interested in refuting it anymore.
Oh,please stop whining with your incessant calling out that I am being a contradiction ...and what the heck is there to refute ?
Contradiction is part of the dynamic of existence within the dream.

All contradiction is relative. The irony is that there are no relationships in existence at all. So how can anything be refuted.
As an example I will use the wave/water analogy: when the wave realises that it's true nature is in fact water, they are known to have a relative reality...and no person is doing this bye the way, the person is the thought, there are just thought bubbles bubbling up from out of the water itself. We can call these thoughts the ''waves''

So what happens next is that these thought bubbles take on an energetic life form of their own separate from the water...magically, the thought bubbles can also reverse the idea of separation by realising the waves do not actually vanish completely, rather they are known to have a relative reality separate from the water albeit illusory...and all that is actually happening is the water is waving to itself. Any apparent relationship appears in that one single dynamic.

The One substance and source of waves is water. This is the meaning of nonduality.. not that there is not an appearance of multiple waves - but that their source and substance is One .. not multiple... and that's what ''Awakening'' means.

It means there is no one to awaken. This is already wide awake.

I would have thought with a name like sthitapragya you would have much resonance with this thread. Your ignorance of truth when it is presented and your refusal to engage with others maturely, makes you appear disingenuous...you have that in common with a lot of other posters at this forum.
Nick_A
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Re: Awakening

Post by Nick_A »

Dontaskme wrote: The 'awakening' is TO the dream, not FROM it.

Life is a dream dreamt by no one.
And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM

Be careful with these ideas or you could end up like Mrs. Schucman of “A Course in Miracles” I AM has a specific meaning. To imagine you are I and that is all that exists is a dangerous idea. It is pure egoism that denies the reality of AM making one equal to God. This is really demonic. We may be living in a dream because of the fallen human condition but that doesn’t deny the lawful reality of creation and its meaning and purpose we are asleep to. Be careful.
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Dontaskme
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Re: Awakening

Post by Dontaskme »

Nick_A wrote:
Dontaskme wrote: The 'awakening' is TO the dream, not FROM it.

Life is a dream dreamt by no one.
And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM

Be careful with these ideas or you could end up like Mrs. Schucman of “A Course in Miracles” I AM has a specific meaning. To imagine you are I and that is all that exists is a dangerous idea. It is pure egoism that denies the reality of AM making one equal to God. This is really demonic. We may be living in a dream because of the fallen human condition but that doesn’t deny the lawful reality of creation and its meaning and purpose we are asleep to. Be careful.
I'm not exactly sure what you mean by to imagine you are I and that is all that exists, and then you go on to say it is egoism that denies the reality of AM

Can ''Am'' exist without there being an ''I'' to give AM existence? ..notice how the ''I'' is prior to the ''AM''

I really don't get what you are saying...sorry.

What do think I AM THAT I AM actually means?

Please realise I'm only here to get on a mutual level of understanding with your ideas Nick, there is no other agenda for me other than that. I'm not posting this stuff to disagree with other view points, only to understand those view points and why they are held.
Nick_A
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Re: Awakening

Post by Nick_A »

Dontaskme wrote: I'm not exactly sure what you mean by to imagine you are I and that is all that exists, and then you go on to say it is egoism that denies the reality of AM

Can ''Am'' exist without there being an ''I'' to give AM existence? ..notice how the ''I'' is prior to the ''AM''

I really don't get what you are saying...sorry.
It isn't right to delve deeply into these ideas in an environment that is hostile. Imposing negativity on them just hurts people. I can only respond superficially.

I AM simultaneously exists as ONE. I or no-thing is conscious potential beyond the confines of time and space. AM is the process of existence within I, the body of I. No-thing and the lawful expressions into every-thing are ONE. Man is a creature within creation. Being "in the image, man has the potential to be: "I am" on a smaller scale within creation. To deny it, to lose the sense of scale and equate the I of man with I is just egoism. Basking in this escapist illusion can only prevent opening to the conscious awareness of the human position within creation and consciously acquiring the need and courage to witness the human condition and progress in the conscious direction towards I am rather than imagining it.
Walker
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Re: Awakening

Post by Walker »

Arising_uk wrote:Ever thought of trying to speak plain English?
:D

Anyone can plod behind the plow but why bother when there’s no need. I don’t feel all musty about straight furrows though I figure if a farmer could do it I could do it if the need ever arises as it has in the past to please. However, under these conditions an inability to comprehend or an inability to discover a relevant question doesn’t impel the impartial motive force of the universe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_P7yWnAAd0

You do realize that in life among the people you witness, those more demonstrably happy on the scale of their immediate surroundings of other people are oft times also suffering on a similar scale. Both the suffering and the happiness are one which can illogically be described as simultaneous. Illogical because simultaneous requires the shadow of a two for the reality of one. The one of suffering and happiness is non-alternating rather than the rapidly alternating singular focus of multi-tasking. The suffering and the happiness are equally as real as they can be though transitory in display. The happiness is the yes, the suffering is samsara, the dualistic mind insists on a separation and thus claims illogical, and in the claim thus reveals that words and not life are being referenced. This holistic referencing of life the one, as suffering is and suffering not, can be apparent in a woman or man who seems a bit too gay but not tipsy, to reclaim anachronistic usages of those words.

Besides, this way offers more doorways to fill with yes or no after the receiver tunes the dial away from static.
Walker
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Re: Awakening

Post by Walker »

Arising_uk wrote:No he (Buddha) didn't. He saw suffering and provided a philosophy to avoid it.
You might want to think on that. Avoidance is an aspect of suffering (samsara).
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Dontaskme
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Re: Awakening

Post by Dontaskme »

Arising_uk wrote:
No he (Buddha) didn't. He saw suffering and provided a philosophy to avoid it.
That's not what he did.

The buddha sat under the bodhi tree for 40 days and nights or so without food or drink....and when asked what happened to him after the duration was over he said nothing happened.

What this meant was that during the period of silent sitting, many many troubling and not so troubling thoughts of both heaven and hell appeared in his awareness. His mission was to watch the thoughts without attachment to them - then when asked what happened to him after he had finished his long silent sitting he said nothing happened.

This idea that nothing happened is a metaphor for how we are not our thoughts, that we are in fact just the pure empty awareness in which thoughts appear and disappear, therefore what we only believe to be is not actually what we are, and that what we actually are is the silent unborn presence in which everything is born and dies, or arises and falls. Nothing ever happen to that constant presence....that always is, it's the only constant in which everything changes.

No one can avoid suffering, pain is inevitable, but the suffering is optional, it is an appearance in that which never suffers as the buddha found out, suffering does not happen to a someone.

No one ever Suffered...Life does not suffer, the preference for non suffering is the suffering. Life can never be happy because it's never been unhappy.
Nick_A
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Re: Awakening

Post by Nick_A »

"We can only know one thing about God - that he is what we are not. Our wretchedness alone is an image of this. The more we contemplate it, the more we contemplate him." ~ Simone Weil

I'll stick with Simone on this one.
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Dontaskme
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Re: Awakening

Post by Dontaskme »

Nick_A wrote:
Dontaskme wrote: I'm not exactly sure what you mean by to imagine you are I and that is all that exists, and then you go on to say it is egoism that denies the reality of AM

Can ''Am'' exist without there being an ''I'' to give AM existence? ..notice how the ''I'' is prior to the ''AM''

I really don't get what you are saying...sorry.
It isn't right to delve deeply into these ideas in an environment that is hostile. Imposing negativity on them just hurts people. I can only respond superficially.

I AM simultaneously exists as ONE. I or no-thing is conscious potential beyond the confines of time and space. AM is the process of existence within I, the body of I. No-thing and the lawful expressions into every-thing are ONE. Man is a creature within creation. Being "in the image, man has the potential to be: "I am" on a smaller scale within creation. To deny it, to lose the sense of scale and equate the I of man with I is just egoism. Basking in this escapist illusion can only prevent opening to the conscious awareness of the human position within creation and consciously acquiring the need and courage to witness the human condition and progress in the conscious direction towards I am rather than imagining it.
If you mean man consciously co-creates it's reality then I agree, but this is still a reality within the dream of separation of a character existing in time and space creating dreams for itself. The dream we weave for our self is not going to exist beyond the grave, the dream ends full stop at physical death. Death of the separate I is the awakening from the dream. We can die before we die and still function as a human being living and participating in life, even while there has been a recognition of non identification with the mistaken victim mentality that life is happening to a me.

When we say to people nothing is happening to you, that is very hurtful I agree, but as soon as the penny drops comes..there come the peace that passes all understanding and life goes on as usual.
Nick_A
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Re: Awakening

Post by Nick_A »

DAM wrote: f you mean man consciously co-creates it's reality then I agree, but this is still a reality within the dream of separation of a character existing in time and space creating dreams for itself. The dream we weave for our self is not going to exist beyond the grave, the dream ends full stop at physical death. Death of the separate I is the awakening from the dream. We can die before we die and still function as a human being living and participating in life, even while there has been a recognition of non identification with the mistaken victim mentality that life is happening to a me.

When we say to people nothing is happening to you, that is very hurtful I agree, but as soon as the penny drops comes..there come the peace that passes all understanding and life goes on as usual.
Where did you get this idea of the “dream of separation?” Pure consciousness doesn’t dream. Consciousness and imagination are mutually exclusive. Imagination takes the place of consciousness. There simply is no reason for pure consciousness to indulge in fantasy. When a person believes they are God it is like a cancer on the psyche. A “part” of the whole of ones being becomes so dominant that it consumes the whole and dooms it the perpetual suffering of samsara. I AM within creation receives from above and gives to below. That is its conscious evolutionary purpose. Denying it by escapism and pretending it is imaginary when taken to the extreme perverts ones being in favor of blind egoism. Maybe it is your way but it’s not mine.
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Re: Awakening

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Nick_A wrote: Where did you get this idea of the “dream of separation?” Pure consciousness doesn’t dream. Consciousness and imagination are mutually exclusive. Imagination takes the place of consciousness. There simply is no reason for pure consciousness to indulge in fantasy. When a person believes they are God it is like a cancer on the psyche. A “part” of the whole of ones being becomes so dominant that it consumes the whole and dooms it the perpetual suffering of samsara. I AM within creation receives from above and gives to below. That is its conscious evolutionary purpose. Denying it by escapism and pretending it is imaginary when taken to the extreme perverts ones being in favor of blind egoism. Maybe it is your way but it’s not mine.
Nick, I've actually no idea what you are saying but I want to ask you the following question....

But I thought the dream of separation was the sense of self or the sense of I exist?

Bye the way, I would really love to understand what you are saying.So I'll be listening very carefully to you.
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Re: Awakening

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Dam wrote: But I thought the dream of separation was the sense of self or the sense of I exist?
It is but it is not God dreaming. This imaginary I is simply the result of our inability to experience the world as it is. The essence of man is real. It is corrupted by the human condition. Decreation is the gradual falling off of the unreal so what is left is the essence of Man which can become its potential or a conscious being serving a conscious purpose within universal structure or the body of God. Man has the potential for I AM but this I is only a potential for us. As we are, we are living in Plato’s cave in which one idiot calls another idiot an idiot.
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Re: Awakening

Post by Dontaskme »

Nick_A wrote:
Dam wrote: But I thought the dream of separation was the sense of self or the sense of I exist?
It is but it is not God dreaming. This imaginary I is simply the result of our inability to experience the world as it is. The essence of man is real. It is corrupted by the human condition. Decreation is the gradual falling off of the unreal so what is left is the essence of Man which can become its potential or a conscious being serving a conscious purpose within universal structure or the body of God. Man has the potential for I AM but this I is only a potential for us. As we are, we are living in Plato’s cave in which one idiot calls another idiot an idiot.

Lets suppose humans never evolved to communicate with each other via words and concepts which adapted into a knowledge of self and existence, and lets suppose humans never evolved the capacity to think about how words gave birth to separation.

We know the idea of separation is imagined simply because it's only a word that separates you from me. What appears to have happened is that the word has created a false division and at the same time is mistakenly believed to be the true state of how things are.

Humans took on a false persona so to speak. How things really are is a whole different reality. How things really are is what the awakened ones call God. I have a different way of describing God, I describe it as nothing being everything. But I only know this because of the knowledge (conceptual meaning of a word) imposed upon me by society.

If humans had never learnt to talk or developed a language that gave meaning to their reality, had they been like the rest of life on earth that is devoid of concept and lived purely from their raw instinct akin to other wild creatures that roam the earth then the concept of God would never have arisen...would it?

This concludes in my logic that it was language/knowledge/concepts all of which are plucked from the imagination of man creating the idea that there is purpose and meaning to existence?
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