Is God competent or incompetent?

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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Greatest I am
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Re: Is God competent or incompetent?

Post by Greatest I am »

-1- wrote: Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:58 pm
Greatest I am wrote: Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:38 pm
Do you recognize that you have a Father Complex?

Regards
DL
Why do you ask? I am not a German Sheppard. Did you think I was?

Do you have an Oedipus complex? Or an anal fixation? Or an oral avocation?

What a question to ask. "Do you recognize that you have a Father Complex?" You might as well ask for my complete medical history, and my family tree, and my valued chauffeur licence number.

Btw, I never said that your logic trail was faulty or not. I am not qualified to do that. For instance, I don't know of the natural law which states that the god of an ant is an ant. So obviously my education is limited, to the extent of not empowering me to sit judgment on your logic.
"In psychology, the term "father complex" is "a group of unconscious associations, or a strong unconscious impulses [sic] - which specifically pertains to the image or archetype of the father". This complex can be either positive, in that a person may impulsively seek out other stereotypically "fatherly" figures and attributes in their lives, or negative, in that a person may mistrust or avoid people with these stereotypical "fatherly" attributes."

You have invoked the Oedipus complex of which the Father Complex is only a part.

You are driven to be the fittest, just as we all are. Where do you think that drive comes from if not the Father Complex?

Regards
DL
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Re: Is God competent or incompetent?

Post by -1- »

Okay, DL, thanks.

Please tell me what is my group of strong unconscious associations which pertain to the archetype of a father. I missed that part in your explanation.

Please make no mistake: I expect of you to name a group of associations, not just one association that I have; how do these associations pertain to the archetype of a father; and how you discovered elements in this group, their being unconscious for me, but clearly visible to your conscious.
osgart
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Re: Is God competent or incompetent?

Post by osgart »

Supposing humans are born in neutrality between the choices of good or evil, with the full capacity to choose and become either nature forever at heart, then responsibility shifts from god, solely to the human being. Otherwise we are predetermined robots bearing no responsibility nor accountability whatsoever.

You might say, why didn't God create us with only good natures? And make it so that only a good nature can manifest itself. Thus giving evil no possibility of existing. Again that is robotic, because humans must be alive with power and volition to be truly alive.

And the first choice of nature and life is to choose our nature of being, it is unavoidable for a newly created creature. What we love, or hate we become and that is our choice. Anything less isn't alive.

However this reality doesn't mesh with the concept of God. For there is nothing ideally made here.
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Re: Is God competent or incompetent?

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-1- wrote: Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:43 pm Okay, DL, thanks.

Please tell me what is my group of strong unconscious associations which pertain to the archetype of a father. I missed that part in your explanation.

Please make no mistake: I expect of you to name a group of associations, not just one association that I have; how do these associations pertain to the archetype of a father; and how you discovered elements in this group, their being unconscious for me, but clearly visible to your conscious.
When you were born, what made you suckle if not an unconscious association with a pattern of thought that would pertain to the archetype within your father complex?

IOW, where do you think your instincts are stored?

That word you use, I call the Father Complex.

This is not rocket science my friend.

Regards
DL

P.S. Please view the link I put below.
Last edited by Greatest I am on Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is God competent or incompetent?

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osgart wrote: Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:43 pm Supposing humans are born in neutrality between the choices of good or evil, with the full capacity to choose and become either nature forever at heart, then responsibility shifts from god, solely to the human being. Otherwise we are predetermined robots bearing no responsibility nor accountability whatsoever.

You might say, why didn't God create us with only good natures? And make it so that only a good nature can manifest itself. Thus giving evil no possibility of existing. Again that is robotic, because humans must be alive with power and volition to be truly alive.

And the first choice of nature and life is to choose our nature of being, it is unavoidable for a newly created creature. What we love, or hate we become and that is our choice. Anything less isn't alive.

However this reality doesn't mesh with the concept of God. For there is nothing ideally made here.
I see our instincts as ideal. Nature created, not God created of course.

We are programmed by nature to cooperate or compete as required.

What could or would be a better ideal?

What it at work and -1- might also watch this to see the Father Complex at work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIc-4h9RIvY

Regards
DL
osgart
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Re: Is God competent or incompetent?

Post by osgart »

I've seen that video before. It's very interesting.

The bias factor is far less than benevolent I think.

Benevolent charity is ideal. Us vs. Them isn't to me.
That's what old Ebenezer Scrooge learned late in life.

I need justification for making adversaries, and being different is poor justification.

I agree life's nature is cooperate or compete, but to me it's very primitive and savage.
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Re: Is God competent or incompetent?

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Greatest I am wrote: Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:03 pm When you were born, what made you suckle if not an unconscious association with a pattern of thought that would pertain to the archetype within your father complex?

IOW, where do you think your instincts are stored?

That word you use, I call the Father Complex.

This is not rocket science my friend.
According to this, everyone has a father complex.

Instinctual behaviour response is stored in DNA.

Why do you call it a father complex? Because everyone's derive from their father? But it derives from their mothers as well. We are diploid, after all.

"When you were born, what made you suckle if not an unconscious association with a pattern of thought that would pertain to the archetype within your father complex?" To answer this question, I'd say I'm not sure what made me suckle. An instinct for sure, but beyond that I don't know the mechanism of it. But I am sure that what made me suckle was NOT due to an association with a pattern of thought pertaining to anything. I assert there was no thought to it. That's what defines (partly) instinctual behaviour: it does not need to be learned, it needs no thought or consideration. You just do it when the triggers are present or when they present themselves.
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Re: Is God competent or incompetent?

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osgart wrote: Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:01 pm I've seen that video before. It's very interesting.

The bias factor is far less than benevolent I think.

Benevolent charity is ideal. Us vs. Them isn't to me.
That's what old Ebenezer Scrooge learned late in life.

I need justification for making adversaries, and being different is poor justification.

I agree life's nature is cooperate or compete, but to me it's very primitive and savage.
It is what give us our altruism and empathy.

I am not sure what bias you are speaking of but have noted that both the positive and negative bias are created at the same time. We automatically dislike what goes against what we like.

As to savage, if you are ever in trouble, you will want the help that comes your way to be savage against what threatens you. No?

Regards
DL
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Re: Is God competent or incompetent?

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-1- wrote: Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:16 am
Greatest I am wrote: Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:03 pm When you were born, what made you suckle if not an unconscious association with a pattern of thought that would pertain to the archetype within your father complex?

IOW, where do you think your instincts are stored?

That word you use, I call the Father Complex.

This is not rocket science my friend.
According to this, everyone has a father complex.

Instinctual behaviour response is stored in DNA.

Why do you call it a father complex? Because everyone's derive from their father? But it derives from their mothers as well. We are diploid, after all.

"When you were born, what made you suckle if not an unconscious association with a pattern of thought that would pertain to the archetype within your father complex?" To answer this question, I'd say I'm not sure what made me suckle. An instinct for sure, but beyond that I don't know the mechanism of it. But I am sure that what made me suckle was NOT due to an association with a pattern of thought pertaining to anything. I assert there was no thought to it. That's what defines (partly) instinctual behaviour: it does not need to be learned, it needs no thought or consideration. You just do it when the triggers are present or when they present themselves.
If you would have read a bit on the Father Complex initially, apologies if you did, then you would have realized that to men it is Father Complex and to women, it is Mother complex.

This aside.

Shaman have said that their DNA speaks to them. Sure, that is a reach for you and I but us you say, our instincts are in our DNA so if you ever feel fear, it is your DNA telling you, not with words but with chemistry, that you need the extra testosterone that automatically pumps through your body when it receives the chemical message to release it.

Further, shaman and sages have always called God, father, so in that sense, Freud and Jung are 4,000 years late in finding within us what the sages have known for a long time. That our DNA speaks to us chemically.

Regards
DL
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Re: Is God competent or incompetent?

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Greatest I am wrote: Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:42 am
-1- wrote: Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:16 am
Greatest I am wrote: Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:03 pm When you were born, what made you suckle if not an unconscious association with a pattern of thought that would pertain to the archetype within your father complex?

IOW, where do you think your instincts are stored?

That word you use, I call the Father Complex.

This is not rocket science my friend.
According to this, everyone has a father complex.

Instinctual behaviour response is stored in DNA.

Why do you call it a father complex? Because everyone's derive from their father? But it derives from their mothers as well. We are diploid, after all.

"When you were born, what made you suckle if not an unconscious association with a pattern of thought that would pertain to the archetype within your father complex?" To answer this question, I'd say I'm not sure what made me suckle. An instinct for sure, but beyond that I don't know the mechanism of it. But I am sure that what made me suckle was NOT due to an association with a pattern of thought pertaining to anything. I assert there was no thought to it. That's what defines (partly) instinctual behaviour: it does not need to be learned, it needs no thought or consideration. You just do it when the triggers are present or when they present themselves.
If you would have read a bit on the Father Complex initially, apologies if you did, then you would have realized that to men it is Father Complex and to women, it is Mother complex.

This aside.

Shaman have said that their DNA speaks to them. Sure, that is a reach for you and I but us you say, our instincts are in our DNA so if you ever feel fear, it is your DNA telling you, not with words but with chemistry, that you need the extra testosterone that automatically pumps through your body when it receives the chemical message to release it.

Further, shaman and sages have always called God, father, so in that sense, Freud and Jung are 4,000 years late in finding within us what the sages have known for a long time. That our DNA speaks to us chemically.

Regards
DL
Why are Junk and Freud only 4,000 years too late? Shamans and Sages have existed much before that. Going back to at least 100,000 years. I don't know where you got this 4000 figure.

You asked me where the instincts are stored, from which I got them. They are stored in DNA, and passed them down to me. But DNA is not what makes me react by instinct. DNA is what helps build body chemistry that become systems that govern my instinctual behaviour.

Let me put it this way: DNA is like a code, that proteins take their shape from, and then after they took their own shape, they go on their own marry ways, to do their own specific jobs. It's like school, where every kid is six years old when they start, (in most places 5 years), they are all almost alike, and they are given the same code, by the teacher's instructions, yet one becomes an engineer, the other, a doctor, a third, a pusher, a fourth, a hooker. Same way, the DNA does not make me sweat or run fast, it is specialized cells and structures that make me do it, developed from DNA. Much like nobody could build a factory or a dam or a spaceship from the Grade 1 Reader, yet evryone who flies into space, or rides a horse, or works in a factory had read the Grade 1 reader.

That's A.

B. is that DNA has only been discovered and described in my lifetime. It is impossible for shamans and sages to have concepts of it in the distant past. That is an anachronism, and it is only easily convinced, gullible people who don't know much science or history of science who treat scientific terms as icons, and imagine that these icons have existed in man's world and knowledge for a long time.

Father / Mother Complex... interesting decision, to name a function differently by sexual application. Wow. I have never seen anything like that.

I am still thinking how you got the 4,000 year lateness for Jung and Freud. I am thinking: Does it have to do anything with a belief that the world is only 6000 years old? And then... you are juxtaposing this with your imagined idea of DNA functionality and "sure" knowledge that shamans and sages have known about DNA for thousands of years.
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Re: Is God competent or incompetent?

Post by Greatest I am »

-1- wrote: Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:09 pm
Greatest I am wrote: Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:42 am
-1- wrote: Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:16 am

According to this, everyone has a father complex.

Instinctual behaviour response is stored in DNA.

Why do you call it a father complex? Because everyone's derive from their father? But it derives from their mothers as well. We are diploid, after all.

"When you were born, what made you suckle if not an unconscious association with a pattern of thought that would pertain to the archetype within your father complex?" To answer this question, I'd say I'm not sure what made me suckle. An instinct for sure, but beyond that I don't know the mechanism of it. But I am sure that what made me suckle was NOT due to an association with a pattern of thought pertaining to anything. I assert there was no thought to it. That's what defines (partly) instinctual behaviour: it does not need to be learned, it needs no thought or consideration. You just do it when the triggers are present or when they present themselves.
If you would have read a bit on the Father Complex initially, apologies if you did, then you would have realized that to men it is Father Complex and to women, it is Mother complex.

This aside.

Shaman have said that their DNA speaks to them. Sure, that is a reach for you and I but us you say, our instincts are in our DNA so if you ever feel fear, it is your DNA telling you, not with words but with chemistry, that you need the extra testosterone that automatically pumps through your body when it receives the chemical message to release it.

Further, shaman and sages have always called God, father, so in that sense, Freud and Jung are 4,000 years late in finding within us what the sages have known for a long time. That our DNA speaks to us chemically.

Regards
DL
Why are Junk and Freud only 4,000 years too late? Shamans and Sages have existed much before that. Going back to at least 100,000 years. I don't know where you got this 4000 figure.

You asked me where the instincts are stored, from which I got them. They are stored in DNA, and passed them down to me. But DNA is not what makes me react by instinct. DNA is what helps build body chemistry that become systems that govern my instinctual behaviour.

Let me put it this way: DNA is like a code, that proteins take their shape from, and then after they took their own shape, they go on their own marry ways, to do their own specific jobs. It's like school, where every kid is six years old when they start, (in most places 5 years), they are all almost alike, and they are given the same code, by the teacher's instructions, yet one becomes an engineer, the other, a doctor, a third, a pusher, a fourth, a hooker. Same way, the DNA does not make me sweat or run fast, it is specialized cells and structures that make me do it, developed from DNA. Much like nobody could build a factory or a dam or a spaceship from the Grade 1 Reader, yet evryone who flies into space, or rides a horse, or works in a factory had read the Grade 1 reader.

That's A.

B. is that DNA has only been discovered and described in my lifetime. It is impossible for shamans and sages to have concepts of it in the distant past. That is an anachronism, and it is only easily convinced, gullible people who don't know much science or history of science who treat scientific terms as icons, and imagine that these icons have existed in man's world and knowledge for a long time.

Father / Mother Complex... interesting decision, to name a function differently by sexual application. Wow. I have never seen anything like that.

I am still thinking how you got the 4,000 year lateness for Jung and Freud. I am thinking: Does it have to do anything with a belief that the world is only 6000 years old? And then... you are juxtaposing this with your imagined idea of DNA functionality and "sure" knowledge that shamans and sages have known about DNA for thousands of years.
The old shaman did not call what they were communicating with DNA. As you say, the term is modern. They likely called it their spirit or God or some such thing.

As to time, I believe in evolution and am not a creationist.

"Father / Mother Complex... interesting decision, to name a function differently by sexual application."

The function is not different, but the instructions and instincts will be different. The Father Complex will enforce the hunter and the Mother Complex will enforce the gatherer. No?

In chimp experiments, males tend to play with cars and females with dolls much the same as humans do. Males, both chimp and humans, are more rambunctious, naturally, so as to prepare them for hunting as opposed to a more gentle way for the gatherers.

As to my use of 4,000 years. I try to stay in recorded history as all else is just speculative and likely nonsense. A few things can perhaps be proven of what went on before records were kept but not many.

Regards
DL
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Re: Is God competent or incompetent?

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Greatest I am wrote: Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:37 pm
The old shaman did not call what they were communicating with DNA. As you say, the term is modern. They likely called it their spirit or God or some such thing.

As to time, I believe in evolution and am not a creationist.

"Father / Mother Complex... interesting decision, to name a function differently by sexual application."

The function is not different, but the instructions and instincts will be different. The Father Complex will enforce the hunter and the Mother Complex will enforce the gatherer. No?

In chimp experiments, males tend to play with cars and females with dolls much the same as humans do. Males, both chimp and humans, are more rambunctious, naturally, so as to prepare them for hunting as opposed to a more gentle way for the gatherers.

As to my use of 4,000 years. I try to stay in recorded history as all else is just speculative and likely nonsense. A few things can perhaps be proven of what went on before records were kept but not many.

Regards
DL
If you play it safe with recorded history, then you must quote the recorded history. Not "likely called". If it's "likely called", then it can go back 100,000 years, very safely. In the profession, we call it the "gross prophet margin".

It is a jump from a quote by a shaman who said "Spirit or God or something" to DNA. You originally said something to the effect that old sages and wise men could read the DNA. I am lazy to look for the exact wording you used. I find that odd, that at one point you put "DNA" in their mouths, and at another point you put "God or spirit or something" there, and then you make the two things equal to each other, and blame Jung and Freud for being 4000 years too late. Freud and Jung did not have concepts of DNA, they had concepts of Father / mother complex, but their usage of this expression was not a set of instinctual behaviour as in your description. Their usage was learned behaviour.

So... you say many things, but your script is replete with equivocation. In my opinion there is nothing new you say, except the mistakes you make via equivocation. Your critical analysis of Freud and Jung are dead wrong, as is your insight of imagining that old prophets and sages could directly read DNA. Later you deny this, and use a vague term, whereas you want to stick to recorded history, which is, by definition, recorded, so please read and quote the records.

Other than that, you have normal insights, I can't fault you for recognizing that human instinctual behaviour is two-pronged, divided between males and females, and that it is inherited via the structure and functionality of genes.
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Re: Is God competent or incompetent?

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Thanks for this.

Regards
DL
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Re: Is God competent or incompetent?

Post by RustyBert »

Greatest I am wrote: Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:01 pm
Dubious wrote: Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:21 am Why give a crap about a non-entity which exists only in scripture. .
Do you have any gays or women in your family and friendship circle?

Do you think helping to rid the world of homophobia and misogyny to be a good thing?

If so you might wonder why you do not give a crap about what is effecting them negatively.

For evil to grow, all we need do is not give a crap and let evil religions just continue to do their evil.

Regards
DL
Your heart's in the right place but your head isn't. You are trying to battle organized religion by arguing about theology. Organized religion has nothing to do with a god or jesus or any of that. It's just an institution that plays on people's emotions for various reasons. SOmetimes the reasons have positive outcomes, usually and historically they don't. And the good outcomes could have been achieved without religion. So you should work on the social institutions of organized religion. Understand the psychology and emotions of the followers. Not unlike Drumpf supporters, the more you point out how bad their leader is, the more they cling to him. That's because their need is emotional, not rational.
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Re: Is God competent or incompetent?

Post by Greatest I am »

RustyBert wrote: Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:23 pm
Greatest I am wrote: Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:01 pm
Dubious wrote: Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:21 am Why give a crap about a non-entity which exists only in scripture. .
Do you have any gays or women in your family and friendship circle?

Do you think helping to rid the world of homophobia and misogyny to be a good thing?

If so you might wonder why you do not give a crap about what is effecting them negatively.

For evil to grow, all we need do is not give a crap and let evil religions just continue to do their evil.

Regards
DL
Your heart's in the right place but your head isn't. You are trying to battle organized religion by arguing about theology. Organized religion has nothing to do with a god or jesus or any of that. It's just an institution that plays on people's emotions for various reasons. SOmetimes the reasons have positive outcomes, usually and historically they don't. And the good outcomes could have been achieved without religion. So you should work on the social institutions of organized religion. Understand the psychology and emotions of the followers. Not unlike Drumpf supporters, the more you point out how bad their leader is, the more they cling to him. That's because their need is emotional, not rational.
You have a good grasp of what is required.

We all have our ways and means though.

Feel free to present anything I say as you like.

Regards
DL
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