Neuraltransmitters involved in safe spaces

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

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EchoesOfTheHorizon
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Neuraltransmitters involved in safe spaces

Post by EchoesOfTheHorizon » Thu Oct 26, 2017 5:07 am

Trixie has me thinking:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_of_La_Mancha

I've always thought of him in comparison to the play, but it just clicked a relation may exist with trauma, allowing people to react in a few different ways. I've known about the fight or flight response for years, but here is a further exploration, from two different news sources:

Swedish Resignation Syndrome
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-41748485

College Liberals Needing Safe Spaces
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government ... ee-speech/

Now I know hypnagogic hallucinations can trigger death in Micronesians, the old incubus phenomena when sleep paralysis kicks in, when our inability to move causes us to think a old lady is sitting on your chest..... why does the imago specifically refer to a old women, ask someone else, I'll mumble about Jungian Archetypes unconvincingly. I just know the weight triggers a generic hallucination, while the rest of the background of the room is still intact. They are somewhat self aware, but not lucid in the sense they can control it. Why Micronesians in particular, I dunno. Just the extreme case statistically, but the phenomena is generally world wide as far as I've investigated, which never was too deep, but enough to know it happens across cultures. Feel free to dig deeper if you need to for a future study, I recommend it.

In the case of college liberals, it seems to be a confusion between communication and ideas, the dialectic and theory of forms/ideas in a platonic sense. Something is causing these kids severe stress, the inability to react like grown ups, and respond. This isn't as uncommon with adults as you would think, I've chaired many philosophy discussions in public where a member becomes distressed or insulted with the direction a member is carrying a debate, and walks out. I'm generally don't give primers in the art of rhetoric prior to group meet ups, just have people introduce themselves, give a intro, and let people dive in, whoever leads can lead. But some groups are a bit.... the word isn't quite right given it deals with vision/ideas and not words/ideas iconoclastic, I've seen Marxists storm out expecting me to make the whole debate steer in the direction of Marx, because the week before I was at a !arxist debate (I'm not a Marxist, showed up out of respect for being the local philosophy guy), or churchy people leave upset, or atheists. I've also saw members of these same groups stick it out as well, and do fine, holding their own and contributing.

Sometimes the reaction is lashi out in anger. That's the old fight or flight response, and I well understand it, and nip it in the butt (usually, unless I'm bored and it's funny). I try in general to be professional about that in public debates, and stop it from getting to the point of people fighting or fleeing in rage or fear.... but if people meekly get up to leave, or leave insulted, whatever.... not my job to make everyone agreement wish it could be otherwise, but we have free will.

How does the sing along, teddy bear cry fest that liberals (and I suppose this is a recent phenomena, never saw it in San Francisco when I lived there, though it has been videotaped happening since) currently have as a subculture, relate to the Swedish case of kids, small kids, only in Sweden, going crap, withdrawling from the body due to some sort of Cartesian Dualism. I've heard the traits of Cartesian Dualism mostly occurs in the right parietal lobe, but don't fully grasp the phenomena. I know many people here debate it superficially without any understanding of the neurology, so yeah, seen your arguments, I'm pointing towards a neurological model here.

If something snapping here, in these kids, isolating the brain's immature emotions? Something you can note on say, Eric Erickson's stages of childhood development? What stage is too old to have a Swedish style snap? Why do the swedes in particular snap, does Swedish culture encourage a degradation or advancement in refugee children? Too much stimuli, not enough?

Another factor is the general rejection of the stress. If a system is really rotten, as a INTJ, I'm either rejecting it, keeping quite and seething in anger, fixing it, or exploding in anger. As a Stoic philosopher, this Anger explosion has been troublesome for me. I've noticed I don't react very well to spontaneous dancing for joy for example, but am a excellent comedian, I've been developing in fact a philosophy of logic based around comedy. But if I see a display like this, from the movie "The Men Who Stare At Goats", I'd likely react exactly as the father. I can't process that sort of information, and the movie itself targeted that inability in some to process it. This likewise, I'm presuming, links to the right hemisphere pulling itself apart, foreword and frontal lobes warring.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HQ74Uuftu6Y

But the anger would be triggered in the left? That inability to process, cognize, slamming down on it? That impulse exists in us all at times, in some more than others, sits central at times to my personality, even though I'm generally more allowing than most self professed liberals- but certain loose situations I can't accept.

I know generally something sits in parallel, or is linked on a On-Off feedback loop in the mind. This slams certain processes that seem weird or queer involving audio music and motor dancing and lively expression, does something allow it to reverse here as well, where people internalize the force to stop activity, instead of exhorting others outside to knock it the fuck off? In the liberals in the US colleges, and Swedish children, it seems to be The Flight Response, this trigger saying NOOOOO, knowing out the circuit internally. They suppress themselves. I presume for small children, who aren't as mentally developed, this trigger shuts down the whole brain. For entitled liberals who can't cope with the world, they none the less neurologically developed enough where they are out of the stage that would suppress this shutdown completely, but are still triggered enough due to general immaturity from living a deeply sheltered life and being easily triggered that they can't cope with it. Space = Safety, but also communication and group feeling. They need extroverted social support..... which is exactly what the kids in the Swedish situation are lacking. They shut down and pull away from the world.

Now I doubt the liberals the world around act like US college age liberals do. They didn't always do this, in the 80s they would just plot the Marxist take over of the world or do drugs.... I'm hoping in a generation or two they will shake this off. I'm going to be very annoyed if this phenomena spreads though. I miss the good old days of 6 years ago when liberals used to ask cops at UC Davis to get pepper sprayed for the photo op in public protests, wasn't as bad as these crying sessions in safe spaces, hiding from a tyrant only they can perceive.

None the less, they perceive it, while Swedish kids can't. My gut says it is all interrelated, a switch between cranial nerves jumcfioning in the right hemisphere, and that kids at a certain stage can't control this at all, and in Sweden either kids are more evolved or devolved in maturation that it just sadly hits them. I can't say either way age wise. Some cultures raise kids differently, they take longer or shorter times in a stage on average over others. The Hare Krishnans where I live for example don't punish kids till the age of five, they are slow to gain a sense of shame as a result. Doesn't mean they are retarded in this area for the rest of their lives, just expect local non Hindu kids to react with shame moreso, and I would be a bit more understanding if the kids don't all react the same.

I'm mostly thinking off the Lovheim Cube for insights to the neurochemical cascade, but note that I don't think the Swedish kids are hitting rock bottom in neurochemical depletion, or that they are apathetic, like in the movie Zardoz.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lövheim_cube_of_emotion

I'm going to have to ask that David not act like a white supremacist or weird in this thread in advance. Guy is a bit off, this is a real topic, we can explore your issues elsewhere, do some philosophy 101 stuff for you. Anyone else, feel open to explore. I have a lot of other questions floating around in my mind in regards to this, we can take it on a tangent from anything above.

surreptitious57
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Re: Neuraltransmitters involved in safe spaces

Post by surreptitious57 » Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:43 am

I think the more that one has some absolute notion of right and wrong the more they can become adversely
affected by something they do not agree with. But it is more psychologically beneficial to ones own mental
well being to avoid as much as possible such notions as emotional detachment allows for a more open mind

EchoesOfTheHorizon
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Re: Neuraltransmitters involved in safe spaces

Post by EchoesOfTheHorizon » Thu Oct 26, 2017 1:33 pm

Yeah, I think the right parietal does just that, it accepts or rejects, it does the judgment function in INTJs for example, but also is involved in extreme depression when it isn't functioning.... but I don't think these kids are depressed, don't think they are matured enough. There are no INTJ children for example, you can detect traits associated with that type in children, but they really can't think in that mode fully till much later.

So I'm assuming it involves stages of psychological growth as we age. Something about Sweden gets kids to either grow faster or slower in some aspect, and I'm guessing on some holistic level, the brain can't process that sense of rejection safely, and they shut down. That would most likely involve the release of a neural inhibitor, but would it be a neural inhibitor we would recognize, like the No Function I spoke of above (hence my mention of sleep paralysis and fear above) or is it just the flow of hormones that are otherwise normal and healthy, but just shouldn't be exposed to other areas of the mind without extreme detriment, due to the brain not being fully formed yet?

Or is some random shit the swedes and only the swedes eat, triggering this, in combination.

I don't disagree with you S57, but it is only natural to have extreme judgments about extreme scenarios, can't teach a child to be a little Buddha, just isn't realistic. I don't think any refugee has the right to stay in any host country forever, and Sweden does have one hell of a struggle with it's current situation, openly debating how to send troops to places like Malmo to regain control of it.... but no kid can properly process that political stuff. Just.... at some stage, it appears the brain is frayed just exactly enough so as to allow the thinking process to start and not complete. I think these liberals on campus having crying bouts can technically process it, having a technically adult mind, but their progressive outlook and parental shielding prevented them from ever having to face reality. Why everyone lashes out at them, it literally pisses us off, not too unlike the video of the father becoming enraged. But he became enraged for a slightly different reason, but my gut says they are pretty close, similar in the mind in terms of triggers, likely part of the same function or closely related.

Of course I don't think most people would get angry at a catatonic kid unable to process info. We are built to be protective in general not just of children, but also youthful animals like puppies and kittens in need of help, as well as a certain order of empathy for the parents. Not wanting a parent to stay as a refugee in your country doesn't equate to glee in knowing they are having extreme problems with their children, you want them to succeed in parenting, want the kid to recover.

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GreatandWiseTrixie
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Re: Neuraltransmitters involved in safe spaces

Post by GreatandWiseTrixie » Thu Oct 26, 2017 5:20 pm

Wow you keep misgendering me and accusing me of being a tranny, so rude dude.

And the rest of it is just a wall of garbage psychobabble. I honestly have no idea what this has to do with me, so stop mentioning my name as if it has something to do with me. And start talking like an American without all the crazy psychobabble. Stop using pyschobabble to explain concepts.

I read through 500 pages of Dennet's Consciousness Explained no problem. But this, this I don't even understand you enough to even make an argument against you. Talk normal.

EchoesOfTheHorizon
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Re: Neuraltransmitters involved in safe spaces

Post by EchoesOfTheHorizon » Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:26 pm

Dennett doesn't count, I destroyed their 4 Horsemen theories regarding the Bronze Age when they tracked me down after UNRV, was a relatively simple matter to implode it. And I never misgender you. But try to stay on topic here Trixie, this is a real thread, real subject.

EchoesOfTheHorizon
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Re: Neuraltransmitters involved in safe spaces

Post by EchoesOfTheHorizon » Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:52 pm

Alright, I'll be fair since Dennett is one of the few modern philosophers the British have to look towards as one of their own with any international recognition. I'll be nice, and entertain you and him here, look through your fearsome "500 page text" and show me how I'm wrong or misguided. I want quotes and page numbers though. I've only known second rate computer programmers to take him seriously as a philosopher though, sat through multiple meet ups on him, and watched a video.... he doesn't exactly attact a intelligent following, but hell, neither does Zizek and I'm nice enough to occasional Engadget Lacanian theories of mind in discussions, so why not Dennett.

Actually dig down and find references in the material relevant to this thread. I've never seen you successfully prosecute a thread by the merits, using resources, so don't know if you can pull it off. Let's see if you can, surprise me.

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GreatandWiseTrixie
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Re: Neuraltransmitters involved in safe spaces

Post by GreatandWiseTrixie » Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:53 pm

EchoesOfTheHorizon wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:26 pm
Dennett doesn't count, I destroyed their 4 Horsemen theories regarding the Bronze Age when they tracked me down after UNRV, was a relatively simple matter to implode it. And I never misgender you. But try to stay on topic here Trixie, this is a real thread, real subject.
I dont think you know what the word "dont misgender" means. It means obey whatever gender I tell you to say I am.
Last edited by GreatandWiseTrixie on Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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GreatandWiseTrixie
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Re: Neuraltransmitters involved in safe spaces

Post by GreatandWiseTrixie » Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:54 pm

EchoesOfTheHorizon wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:52 pm
Alright, I'll be fair since Dennett is one of the few modern philosophers the British have to look towards as one of their own with any international recognition. I'll be nice, and entertain you and him here, look through your fearsome "500 page text" and show me how I'm wrong or misguided. I want quotes and page numbers though. I've only known second rate computer programmers to take him seriously as a philosopher though, sat through multiple meet ups on him, and watched a video.... he doesn't exactly attact a intelligent following, but hell, neither does Zizek and I'm nice enough to occasional Engadget Lacanian theories of mind in discussions, so why not Dennett.

Actually dig down and find references in the material relevant to this thread. I've never seen you successfully prosecute a thread by the merits, using resources, so don't know if you can pull it off. Let's see if you can, surprise me.
Im not going through your walls of beans and prosecuting it. Either make it American, or this isn't a real debate. I have an easier time reading Science Journals than I do some of your material.

EchoesOfTheHorizon
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Re: Neuraltransmitters involved in safe spaces

Post by EchoesOfTheHorizon » Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:19 pm

You brag about Dennet then won't use him because he isn't American?

Geeze..... um, use Searle then, he is a professor at Berkeley, does similar stuff, he puts his stuff on YouTube course wise. I've dealt with his students when in San Francisco, isn't hard. He isn't that bad though, I've seen way worst. The Ivy League hasn't exactly been producing a lot of great minds as of late.

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Arising_uk
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Re: Neuraltransmitters involved in safe spaces

Post by Arising_uk » Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:49 pm

EchoesOfTheHorizon wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 5:07 am
Trixie has me thinking:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_of_La_Mancha

I've always thought of him in comparison to the play, but it just clicked a relation may exist with trauma, allowing people to react in a few different ways. I've known about the fight or flight response for years, but here is a further exploration, from two different news sources:

Swedish Resignation Syndrome
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-41748485

College Liberals Needing Safe Spaces
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government ... ee-speech/
I don't think these correlate, the odds are that the Swedish experience is down to the parents telling their kids horror stories that they're going to be deported back to wherever they've come and given the probability that where they've come from and the journey to get here was hell I can well understand the kids reaction. Now whether the parents are deliberately doing this to help with the asylum process or they just believe it true who knows. Or it just could be that their melatonin levels are scuppered due to living in the Sweden compared to what they've been used to.

As to the stuff about 'safe spaces' I think this just a reflection of the way society, especially American society, is going thanks to the InterWeeb, Goggle and social networks like Wastebook and BoobTube. Goggle has made truth an algorithm and Wastebook and Boobtube have reinforced the self-referential aspect of it. So people think what they believe is true because they believe it and have this confirmed because their online interactions confirm it due to the algorithms attempting to make sure that they only hear or see what closely confirms to what they've already seen and heard. It wasn't so bad when the wall in Wastebook was time-line sequential but now they want to sell you shit it's become a selective reflection of what's being said even amongst one's friends and acquaintances. Add to this the American dream of 'individual happiness' and you have the perfect scenario for producing individuals who are unable to process their emotional response to hearing something that contradicts their beliefs along with a moral stance that says they should be able to edit and program such stuff like they do with their online and TV life. Compound it with making the supposed pinnacle of the socio-political system, i.e. the Prez, exactly the same type of person and I think we can safely say America as a United State is not going to do any great distance in History.
Last edited by Arising_uk on Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Arising_uk
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Re: Neuraltransmitters involved in safe spaces

Post by Arising_uk » Fri Oct 27, 2017 2:56 am

GreatandWiseTrixie wrote:I dont think you know what the word "dont misgender" means. ...
It means your grammar is bad.
It means obey whatever gender I tell you to say I am.
I think you mean, 'If you'd be so kind could you please refer to me in the way I wish'.

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