Philosophy Now Forum

EchoesOfTheHorizon wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:39 pm There is a Neo-Platonic text that talks about intelligence knowing itself directly, runs counter to much of Platonism, but ummm.... technically some aspects of the mind can observe itself due to weird feedback loops in the mind. You can observe yourself thinking for certain personality types.

But don't think tricked is rational or stable enough to qualify as a INTP, so gonna have to say in general he can't. But a few here probably can.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:33 pm

GreatandWiseTrixie wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:31 pm I dont want to be special, I just want to be loved!

I would rather someone think the same as I do than be the only island who thinks these thoughts.

That is a very honest and lovable answer.

GreatandWiseTrixie wrote:

surreptitious57 post wrote:

GreatandWiseTrixie wrote:
So I think Dualism is real

Which type of dualism since there is more than one. Cartesian dualism is definitely not real as the mind cannot exist outside of the body
Substance dualism treats them as separate but from within the body. Property dualism treats the mental as an emergent property of the
physical and is the only one that is actually true. The standard definition of physical is too restrictive and should incorporate the mental
as well rather than treat it as something separate from it as is usually the case

But your mind exists outside of my body

surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:05 pm

GreatandWiseTrixie wrote:

surreptitious57 post wrote:

Which type of dualism since there is more than one. Cartesian dualism is definitely not real as the mind cannot exist outside of the body
Substance dualism treats them as separate but from within the body. Property dualism treats the mental as an emergent property of the
physical and is the only one that is actually true. The standard definition of physical is too restrictive and should incorporate the mental
as well rather than treat it as something separate from it as is usually the case

But your mind exists outside of my body

Your mind exists inside of your body the same as everyone elses and that is all that matters here and nothing else
You cannot go outside of your mind because mind is a function of the brain and consciousness cannot survive death
Once you are dead you are dead forever and although you believe in reincarnation you have no evidence for it at all
This is why I accept death without reservation while you want to build a DNA machine that can make you live forever
I deal in science fact which is true whereas you deal in science fiction which is false and so we can never agree on this

GreatandWiseTrixie wrote:
If consciousness does not survive death then what is your consciousness right now?
Does it exist? Do you have consciousness? If I die before you do will that destroy your consciousness?

surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:58 pm

GreatandWiseTrixie wrote:
If consciousness does not survive death then what is your consciousness right now?
Does it exist? Do you have consciousness? If I die before you do will that destroy your consciousness?

All these questions are silly. I have consciousness right now. For I am alive and so obviously it exists and
I have it. And no it will not be destroyed if you die before me. But when you do eventually die you shall
remain dead and free from all pain and suffering forever. So this is something for you to look forward to

GreatandWiseTrixie wrote:

surreptitious57 wrote:

GreatandWiseTrixie wrote:
If consciousness does not survive death then what is your consciousness right now?
Does it exist? Do you have consciousness? If I die before you do will that destroy your consciousness?

All these questions are silly. I have consciousness right now. For I am alive and so obviously it exists and
I have it. And no it will not be destroyed if you die before me. But when you do eventually die you shall
remain dead and free from all pain and suffering forever. So this is something for you to look forward to

Sounds like a religious fantasy to me
If I die how do I know I wont be born out of a vagina into some other
body? Where is the paper the document that tells me the guarantee?

surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:43 pm

GreatandWiseTrixie wrote:

surreptitious57 wrote:

All these questions are silly. I have consciousness right now. For I am alive and so obviously it exists and
I have it. And no it will not be destroyed if you die before me. But when you do eventually die you shall
remain dead and free from all pain and suffering forever. So this is something for you to look forward to

Sounds like a religious fantasy to me
If I die how do I know I wont be born out of a vagina into some other
body? Where is the paper the document that tells me the guarantee?

Death is not a religious fantasy. Religion believes in the eternal soul. Something for which there is precisely
zero evidence. I do not do religion or fantasy. I do reality. And it says that permanent brain death is forever
and so that is what I go with. The only things which are thought to be infinite are photons. But nothing else

GreatandWiseTrixie wrote:
Look right now both me and you are conscious. Which means consciousness is persistent in between bodies
Science knows next to nothing about the brain let alone soul

surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:19 pm

GreatandWiseTrixie wrote:
Look right now both me and you are conscious. Which means consciousness is persistent in between bodies
Science knows next to nothing about the brain let alone soul

The existence of consciousness does not mean that it is persistent and there is no evidence to say that it is
Neuroscience and psychology do not know everything about the brain but knowledge will increase over time
Science cannot investigate the soul for it is not something physical and there is no evidence it exists anyway

surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:58 pm

GreatandWiseTrixie wrote:
If consciousness does not survive death then what is your consciousness right now?
Does it exist? Do you have consciousness? If I die before you do will that destroy your consciousness?

All these questions are silly. I have consciousness right now. For I am alive and so obviously it exists and
I have it. And no it will not be destroyed if you die before me. But when you do eventually die you shall
remain dead and free from all pain and suffering forever. So this is something for you to look forward to

GreatandWiseTrixie wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:51 pm Look i was born without asking for no reason.
There is no evidence to suggest that it will not happen again.
It happened once for no reason it can happen again.

GreatandWiseTrixie wrote:
Also, I have no idea and not sure if the brain has an actual "Spot" in the brain where the neurons come into the Exact configuration that our eyes receive, ie. a "Tv screen" of the conscious mind. I remember Daniel Dennett saying that the "TV screen" existed, but I am not sure. I can't find it on google. This piece of information is crucial to the discussion.

Ginkgo wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:28 am

GreatandWiseTrixie wrote:
Also, I have no idea and not sure if the brain has an actual "Spot" in the brain where the neurons come into the Exact configuration that our eyes receive, ie. a "Tv screen" of the conscious mind. I remember Daniel Dennett saying that the "TV screen" existed, but I am not sure. I can't find it on google. This piece of information is crucial to the discussion.

I think this is what you were looking for:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartesian_theater

Dennett is saying that the Cartesian Theatre is a fallacy, consciousness is spread throughout the brain. In other words, there is no single spot in the brain where consciousness occurs.