Trixie's Thread about Mind.

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

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GreatandWiseTrixie
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Trixie's Thread about Mind.

Post by GreatandWiseTrixie » Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:39 am

Ok so the sad thing is, people get old, the older they get the uglier they get, meat-eaters make themselves look ugly with all the meaty testosterone.

Now whats interesting about this, is the spiritual connections. Isn't it strange that As the brain gets older, we lose passion and interest in life? Like think about it like this...The more you do an activity, the more memory you have being overrun by the activity, and you get sick of the activity. Like if you eat spaghetti every day, you will Lose interest in Spaghetti. And isn't it weird how the "you" (your spiritual consciousness) loses interest When the brain's memory patterns start to pile up? Like as if you are a critic of your own brain, saying "Hmm this brain is getting boring, I want a new one or a reset."

I think Dualism is real because, We are literally sitting inside 1 sense, the First Person Camera of our bodies. But touch and music is an entirely different sense that we are sitting around. There could be 500 senses, totally unfathomable. It's n-dimensional, incomprehensible until it is comprehended. Like our souls are compatible with these things, maybe.

So I think Dualism is real because, Our brain is a network of neurons. And yet all of these neurons are condensed into 1 thing, Us. Thus we cannot be the network of neurons, because there are millions of neurons, but only 1 us, therefore we are an Entity which is not our neurons.

Also, I have no idea and not sure if the brain has an actual "Spot" in the brain where the neurons come into the Exact configuration that our eyes receive, ie. a "Tv screen" of the conscious mind. I remember Daniel Dennett saying that the "TV screen" existed, but I am not sure. I can't find it on google. This piece of information is crucial to the discussion.

But I have a brand new thing no philosopher has ever thought of before. What if Reality is a total mess, total chaos, and its our Consciousness which gives order to space. Like the actual molecules are like wound up and random all over, and our neurons are seeing them all over just random scattered everywhere like viscious vines. But our Consciousness travels the random nuerons, picks and weeds them out and forms a picture of ordered space and ordered sense. ? Anyone thought of this before?

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Lacewing
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Re: Trixie's Thread about Mind.

Post by Lacewing » Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:22 pm

GreatandWiseTrixie wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:39 am
meat-eaters make themselves look ugly with all the meaty testosterone.
Not true. How are people to respond to you when you just make up crap? :)
GreatandWiseTrixie wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:39 am
Now whats interesting about this, is the spiritual connections.
Okay... channel shift... I guess you're going to talk about that next.
GreatandWiseTrixie wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:39 am
Isn't it strange that As the brain gets older, we lose passion and interest in life?
Channel shift. Are you on drugs while you write this? This statement isn't true "in general" either. You may be talking about ONE PATH that people can take... but chances are, a person's aging path is a reflection of their earlier selves. For example, boring and superficial people may simply not be as easily entertained and distracted as they age -- whereas passionate people who find life interesting aren't going to lose those qualities/attitudes just because their body slows down.
GreatandWiseTrixie wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:39 am
Like think about it like this...The more you do an activity, the more memory you have being overrun by the activity, and you get sick of the activity.
Okay. That's one way to look at it. However, some people feel safe staying in a familiar pattern... and don't want to step outside of it for any reason. They don't seem to get sick of it -- they just seem sick because of it. :lol:
GreatandWiseTrixie wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:39 am
And isn't it weird how the "you" (your spiritual consciousness) loses interest When the brain's memory patterns start to pile up? Like as if you are a critic of your own brain, saying "Hmm this brain is getting boring, I want a new one or a reset."
I'm not sure that the way you're connecting the dots is some kind of obvious, universal pattern. For example, there are lots of people who build their entire identity and lives on the patterns piled up in their brain -- and they refuse to accept anything outside of that, perhaps for their entire lives. If they DID question the limits imposed by their thinking, as you seem to suggest, that would seem to be an interesting and more expansive/evolving thing for them to do.

So I'm trying to follow the rest of your post... and it seems to be jumping all over the place. So seriously... were you smoking pot or something while you wrote it? I think that people should have little disclaimers at the beginning of their posts to identify the influence they are under and/or what may skew their communication. Mine would be... "Disclaimer: I've tripped and I can't get down." :)
GreatandWiseTrixie wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:39 am
But I have a brand new thing no philosopher has ever thought of before. What if Reality is a total mess, total chaos, and its our Consciousness which gives order to space.
First sentence, not true. Second sentence, yes, that's cool to think about. Makes perfect sense to me.
GreatandWiseTrixie wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:39 am
Like the actual molecules are like wound up and random all over, and our neurons are seeing them all over just random scattered everywhere like viscious vines.
Or they could be orgasmic blobs.
GreatandWiseTrixie wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:39 am
But our Consciousness travels the random nuerons, picks and weeds them out and forms a picture of ordered space and ordered sense.
Or there may be no picking and weeding required at all. We may just BECOME... we may just MANIFEST... INSTANTLY. We may just VISUALIZE/IMAGINE... and IT IS SO! NO PROCESS required! This is the kind of vibration I'm intrigued by... although I have a lot of fun playing and dancing and "going through the motions".

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Re: Trixie's Thread about Mind.

Post by thought addict » Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:09 pm

GreatandWiseTrixie wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:39 am
Also, I have no idea and not sure if the brain has an actual "Spot" in the brain where the neurons come into the Exact configuration that our eyes receive, ie. a "Tv screen" of the conscious mind. I remember Daniel Dennett saying that the "TV screen" existed, but I am not sure. I can't find it on google. This piece of information is crucial to the discussion.
If I'm understanding your description correctly, I think that "TV screen" is what Dan Dennett called the Cartesian Theater and he disparages it and says it doesn't exist. He plays the role of a hardcore eliminativist physicalist though who gives no convincing explanation for why we have vivid subjective first person experiences (qualia). I'm more of a dualist but he might be partly right insofar as there's no single physically central place where the visual information is experienced.

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Re: Trixie's Thread about Mind.

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:30 am

GreatandWiseTrixie wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:39 am
What if Reality is a total mess, total chaos, and its our Consciousness which gives order to space.
That's been shown to be the case. Even more mind-boggling is that at the quantum level nothing exists until we observe it, so essentially we really are 'something from nothing'. That should keep the religios happy :)

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Re: Trixie's Thread about Mind.

Post by EchoesOfTheHorizon » Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:12 am

The stages of hynogogia would go against Dennett's presumptions. Anyone who has dreams would know this. The uniting principle isn't a awareness of self or lucidity, as you can dream without either. What unites a dream, in all it's multiplicity, is the causality in motion. This is a fixed movement in the mind, based in the left hemisphere if I take Lorin Friesen's theory of neurology as correct. Frontal Eye Fields can project images associated with the lower stages of hypnogagia as well, on this circuit that runs Boolean causality in our minds, before (or during?) the right hemisphere intercepts and further processes the information.

You can read up more about how he thinks the mind works at www.mentalsymmetry.com as I figure someone will start demanding sources. I mostly base my idea here on how he thinks causality is processed in the left hemisphere before being sent to the right. That seems the crux of all dreaming, the underlining purpose of REM. You hit upon Chuang Tzu's Butterfly after that. Is a sense of self the essence of dreams? Nope. Nor is it of being awake. Nor is any particular calculation. Not the sums or particulars, except one.... how we visually process causality. For the blind, I've been told it is done by touch and space. They can dream climbing over rubble of moving hills, climbing through a apocalyptic world. Only thing binding that together it cause and effect in space and time. A conception of causality. That's our view box, and the leading effect of it all in triggering this cognitive cascade seems already to be know to some neural theorists.

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Re: Trixie's Thread about Mind.

Post by surreptitious57 » Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:44 am

GreatandWiseTrixie wrote:
So I think Dualism is real
Which type of dualism since there is more than one. Cartesian dualism is definitely not real as the mind cannot exist outside of the body
Substance dualism treats them as separate but from within the body. Property dualism treats the mental as an emergent property of the
physical and is the only one that is actually true. The standard definition of physical is too restrictive and should incorporate the mental
as well rather than treat it as something separate from it as is usually the case

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Re: Trixie's Thread about Mind.

Post by thought addict » Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:59 am

surreptitious57 wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:44 am
Cartesian dualism is definitely not real as the mind cannot exist outside of the body
Substance dualism treats them as separate but from within the body.
You still haven't explained why you believe the mind can only exist in a brain. Are you saying there's some law of nature to do with brains? What would the law look like? Do you agree brains are information processing machines? Do you believe we could build an artificial brain and create a mind?

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Re: Trixie's Thread about Mind.

Post by surreptitious57 » Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:02 am

thought addict wrote:
You still havent explained why you believe the mind can only exist in a brain
Mind is a function of the brain so it can only exist within one and nowhere else

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Re: Trixie's Thread about Mind.

Post by thought addict » Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:57 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:02 am
thought addict wrote:
You still havent explained why you believe the mind can only exist in a brain
Mind is a function of the brain so it can only exist within one and nowhere else
Then what is a brain? Can we build one out of microchips?

surreptitious57
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Re: Trixie's Thread about Mind.

Post by surreptitious57 » Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:09 pm

Brains are currently limited to the organs that exist in life forms but machines will at some point possess
them too though they will be referred to as minds. They would have to pass a Turing test and be capable
of independent thinking instead of simply being automatically programmed to perform specific functions

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GreatandWiseTrixie
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Re: Trixie's Thread about Mind.

Post by GreatandWiseTrixie » Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:14 pm

thedoc wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:41 pm
It has been said that the mind cannot know itself, Trixie is certainly qualified in that sense, she is on the outside looking in.
I reported you again for being rude and insulting me with offtopic adhoms. It seems like your only purpose here is to follow me around and post insults to me for no reason. Amazing.

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GreatandWiseTrixie
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Re: Trixie's Thread about Mind.

Post by GreatandWiseTrixie » Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:10 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:44 am
GreatandWiseTrixie wrote:
So I think Dualism is real
Which type of dualism since there is more than one. Cartesian dualism is definitely not real as the mind cannot exist outside of the body
Substance dualism treats them as separate but from within the body. Property dualism treats the mental as an emergent property of the
physical and is the only one that is actually true. The standard definition of physical is too restrictive and should incorporate the mental
as well rather than treat it as something separate from it as is usually the case
But your mind exists outside of my body.
Lacewing wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:22 pm
Not true. How are people to respond to you when you just make up crap? :)
Youre the one making up crap. Its a well known fact meat boosts tesosterone. Its a well known fact vegans age gracefully.

Channel shift. Are you on drugs while you write this? This statement isn't true "in general" either. You may be talking about ONE PATH that people can take... but chances are, a person's aging path is a reflection of their earlier selves. For example, boring and superficial people may simply not be as easily entertained and distracted as they age -- whereas passionate people who find life interesting aren't going to lose those qualities/attitudes just because their body slows down.
Hold on...you mean spineless average Daytime television people, like you see on Diabetes commercials. Passionate people like Neitzche, Hemmingway, etc. got more depressed when they were older. You know...thinkers. People with sentience. Not filler for the void types.



GreatandWiseTrixie wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:39 am
But I have a brand new thing no philosopher has ever thought of before. What if Reality is a total mess, total chaos, and its our Consciousness which gives order to space.
First sentence, not true. Second sentence, yes, that's cool to think about. Makes perfect sense to me.
Who thought of this before I did?
GreatandWiseTrixie wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:39 am
But our Consciousness travels the random nuerons, picks and weeds them out and forms a picture of ordered space and ordered sense.
Or there may be no picking and weeding required at all. We may just BECOME... we may just MANIFEST... INSTANTLY. We may just VISUALIZE/IMAGINE... and IT IS SO! NO PROCESS required! This is the kind of vibration I'm intrigued by...
Yes but that doesn't explain anything.

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Lacewing
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Re: Trixie's Thread about Mind.

Post by Lacewing » Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:27 pm

GreatandWiseTrixie wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:10 pm
Its a well known fact vegans age gracefully.
I'm guessing you're vegan? :lol:
GreatandWiseTrixie wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:10 pm
Hold on...you mean spineless average Daytime television people, like you see on Diabetes commercials.
I'm not sure what you're talking about. I don't watch much TV.
GreatandWiseTrixie wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:10 pm
Passionate people like Neitzche, Hemmingway, etc. got more depressed when they were older. You know...thinkers.
Maybe that was due to the vibration of their energy.
GreatandWiseTrixie wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:39 am
But I have a brand new thing no philosopher has ever thought of before. What if Reality is a total mess, total chaos, and its our Consciousness which gives order to space.
lacewing wrote:First sentence, not true. Second sentence, yes, that's cool to think about. Makes perfect sense to me.
Who thought of this before I did?
Me... a lot of people... even if it might be described a little differently than you describe it. But go ahead and believe you're uniquely brilliant and special... oh, and beautiful. :D
GreatandWiseTrixie wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:39 am
But our Consciousness travels the random nuerons, picks and weeds them out and forms a picture of ordered space and ordered sense.
lacewing wrote:Or there may be no picking and weeding required at all. We may just BECOME... we may just MANIFEST... INSTANTLY. We may just VISUALIZE/IMAGINE... and IT IS SO! NO PROCESS required! This is the kind of vibration I'm intrigued by...
Yes but that doesn't explain anything.
What kind of explanation do you need?

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GreatandWiseTrixie
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Re: Trixie's Thread about Mind.

Post by GreatandWiseTrixie » Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:31 pm

I dont want to be special, I just want to be loved!
Image

I would rather someone think the same as I do than be the only island who thinks these thoughts.

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Lacewing
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Re: Trixie's Thread about Mind.

Post by Lacewing » Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:33 pm

GreatandWiseTrixie wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:31 pm
I dont want to be special, I just want to be loved!

I would rather someone think the same as I do than be the only island who thinks these thoughts.
That is a very honest and lovable answer. :D

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