The Inter Mind

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

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Harbal
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Re: The Inter Mind

Post by Harbal »

Dontaskme wrote: They can pretend they are seeing light out there, but in reality it's pitch black outside the brain, and inside the brain too.
Okay, I'll tell them.
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Dontaskme
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Re: The Inter Mind

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Harbal wrote:
Dontaskme wrote: They can pretend they are seeing light out there, but in reality it's pitch black outside the brain, and inside the brain too.
Okay, I'll tell them.
There is no reality out-there..no senses, no colour, no light, they're all in the brain. Close your eyes and the picture disappears. Proof that the picture that appears as the outside world is just a copy made in the brain of an original we have no direct access to.

Light cannot see light, there is only light. To see light without obscurity there needs a contrast , and is why we tend to sit in a darkened cinema if we are to see the film properly.

Even black doesn't exist. :shock:
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Harbal
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Re: The Inter Mind

Post by Harbal »

Dontaskme wrote: There is no reality out-there..no senses, no colour, no light, they're all in the brain. Close your eyes and the picture disappears. Proof that the picture that appears as the outside world is just a copy made in the brain of an original we have no direct access to.

Light cannot see light, there is only light. To see light without obscurity there needs a contrast , and is why we tend to sit in a darkened cinema if we are to see the film properly.

Even black doesn't exist. :shock:
Okay, you've convinced me, Dontask, I now accept that you are the custodian of ultimate truth. So tell me, what am I to do with this truth? Should I stop trying to look at things and listen to things? Tell me what I must do now. But, please, grant me one concession, do it in human speak, I am but a novice and will not understand otherwise. Guide me.
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Dontaskme
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Re: The Inter Mind

Post by Dontaskme »

Harbal wrote:
Dontaskme wrote: There is no reality out-there..no senses, no colour, no light, they're all in the brain. Close your eyes and the picture disappears. Proof that the picture that appears as the outside world is just a copy made in the brain of an original we have no direct access to.

Light cannot see light, there is only light. To see light without obscurity there needs a contrast , and is why we tend to sit in a darkened cinema if we are to see the film properly.

Even black doesn't exist. :shock:
Okay, you've convinced me, Dontask, I now accept that you are the custodian of ultimate truth. So tell me, what am I to do with this truth? Should I stop trying to look at things and listen to things? Tell me what I must do now. But, please, grant me one concession, do it in human speak, I am but a novice and will not understand otherwise. Guide me.
I'm not wanting you to do anything. Why you even reading this thread, you seem incapable of participating in it, I haven't seen you relate to the topic once with your own ideas or feedback or asked any questions to Steve? .. is there something you want to get from this? how many times have I told you about this ...why are you bothering to hang out here...? Why are you making this about people? and what you think they can give to you? can't you just run with the flow of what's appearing to want to be discussed without involving the people and getting personal with them and yourself.

We're simply having a discussion about mind and consciousness. Why you do always get so wrapped up in the story of yourself here? either you want to talk about the subject topic or you don't.This is not about you. It's just banter talking about subjects we like to talk about. It's just life singing ...why do birds chirp? ..why do cats meow?.... why do people interpret sounds coming from the vibration of their vocal cords as words with meaning ? ... it's all just life singing.

I don't think that I've ever said I know ultimate truth, no one can know that but what I do not know is that there is no one to know it, truth already stands alone as self evident ..and so whatever story the mind comes up with about what it thinks that is will only be a copy of the original copy, it will always be a poor representation of it.

And that's what's being discussed here...please do yourself a favour, and get over yourself for God's sake.
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Harbal
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Re: The Inter Mind

Post by Harbal »

Dontaskme wrote: ...why are you bothering to hang out here...?
Because you keep quoting me and I'm too polite to ignore you.
This is not about you.
Oh, right. There seems to have been some kind of misunderstanding.
It's just banter talking about subjects we like to talk about.
Okay, that's a fair point. I may have possibly overdone it. Please accept my apologies and carry on your discussion.
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Re: The Inter Mind

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The prevailing Philosophical and Scientific view that Consciousness is just an illusion seems to me to be totally unscientific. When they say that Consciousness is just an Illusion they are saying that Consciousness does not really exist. Have they ever actually seen Light or heard Sound?
I think that way too Steve...what you've written there.

It's not that Consciousness is an illusion. Consciousness can't be denied. It's self-evident, there is without doubt or error a conscious experience reading this forum right now. And then also, in my experience . .there seems to be a thought arising in this conscious experience that say's this is 'me' reading. . . and then another thought comes up that tells me there was just a pure awareness of reading prior to the thought ''me'' is reading this forum.. It's like there is a kind of flip flopping going on from a sense of no self to a sense of self..back to a sense of no self ..etc.



So I agree Consciousness is not an illusion, the illusion is that it belongs to someone. So there is no one to say it is an illusion, for they would have to bear witness to it ..to be able to make such a claim... and like you say, there is no one to see it. Same with sound, the ear doesn't hear sound in the same sense a violin does hear the music coming from it's strings.

So when two surfaces the string and the bow rub together, a sound is created when two physicals make contact to make a friction which is experienced as a conscious experience of noise.

Now all I have to do is figure out how that happens and I've no idea ..what do you say Steve?
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Re: The Inter Mind

Post by SteveKlinko »

Dontaskme wrote:
The prevailing Philosophical and Scientific view that Consciousness is just an illusion seems to me to be totally unscientific. When they say that Consciousness is just an Illusion they are saying that Consciousness does not really exist. Have they ever actually seen Light or heard Sound?
I think that way too Steve...what you've written there.

It's not that Consciousness is an illusion. Consciousness can't be denied. It's self-evident, there is without doubt or error a conscious experience reading this forum right now. And then also, in my experience . .there seems to be a thought arising in this conscious experience that say's this is 'me' reading. . . and then another thought comes up that tells me there was just a pure awareness of reading prior to the thought ''me'' is reading this forum.. It's like there is a kind of flip flopping going on from a sense of no self to a sense of self..back to a sense of no self ..etc.



So I agree Consciousness is not an illusion, the illusion is that it belongs to someone. So there is no one to say it is an illusion, for they would have to bear witness to it ..to be able to make such a claim... and like you say, there is no one to see it. Same with sound, the ear doesn't hear sound in the same sense a violin does hear the music coming from it's strings.

So when two surfaces the string and the bow rub together, a sound is created when two physicals make contact to make a friction which is experienced as a conscious experience of noise.

Now all I have to do is figure out how that happens and I've no idea ..what do you say Steve?
Conscious Experience is the David Chalmers Hard Problem of Consciousness and it is not solved yet. All we know is that 1) Neurons Fire in the Brain and 2) a Conscious Experience happens. The thing that does the processing to convert Neurons Firing to Conscious Experience is The Inter Mind of course. It's a third aspect of Mind. The Inter Mind is a Triplistic Mind model.
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Re: The Inter Mind

Post by Dontaskme »

SteveKlinko wrote:Conscious Experience is the David Chalmers Hard Problem of Consciousness and it is not solved yet. All we know is that 1) Neurons Fire in the Brain and 2) a Conscious Experience happens. The thing that does the processing to convert Neurons Firing to Conscious Experience is The Inter Mind of course. It's a third aspect of Mind. The Inter Mind is a Triplistic Mind model.
It seems to be okay to say that there is only Consciousness ?


And what if the words energy/light/awareness/self/consciousness/mind/thought/idea/feeling/sensation/ and so forth..... are all just different ways of describing the same substance which is Consciousness?

And that's it's all physical because it is detected via experience, even though it is not seen..

I'm getting the feeling that a rock is conscious and electricity is conscious.

Best regards Jane.
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Re: The Inter Mind

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So assuming everything is consciousness then it is one thing...which is equal to no thing.

so then how does no thing be some thing? .... answer: by the knowledge of it, the knowing of it.... is this what you mean by the inter mind ? like some kind of sensory feedback loop

appearing to be some thing via the knowledge ..but not actually any thing at all since ..knowledge has no entity behind it, it's empty? so what i'm trying to say is that the reality known as a physical world of things is a simulated set of empty images appear real ?
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Re: The Inter Mind

Post by SteveKlinko »

Dontaskme wrote:
SteveKlinko wrote:Conscious Experience is the David Chalmers Hard Problem of Consciousness and it is not solved yet. All we know is that 1) Neurons Fire in the Brain and 2) a Conscious Experience happens. The thing that does the processing to convert Neurons Firing to Conscious Experience is The Inter Mind of course. It's a third aspect of Mind. The Inter Mind is a Triplistic Mind model.
It seems to be okay to say that there is only Consciousness ?


And what if the words energy/light/awareness/self/consciousness/mind/thought/idea/feeling/sensation/ and so forth..... are all just different ways of describing the same substance which is Consciousness?

And that's it's all physical because it is detected via experience, even though it is not seen..

I'm getting the feeling that a rock is conscious and electricity is conscious.

Best regards Jane.
Hello Jane.

People make the statement that all matter has consciousness. I doubt it. Even something as alive as my thumb does not have consciousness. Only the Brain seems to have it. There is no ability to feel with a thumb or move that thumb if the Nerves to it are cut. If Consciousness was a pervasive thing that existed throughout the whole Body then I should still feel in that thumb because part of my Consciousness would be local to that thumb. Instead what we experience is that the Conscious feeling for that thumb depends on Brain Activity for the thumb. If the signals don't get to the Brain there is no feeling. So it would seem that conscious feeling for that thumb is in the Brain and not in the thumb itself.
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Re: The Inter Mind

Post by SteveKlinko »

Dontaskme wrote:So assuming everything is consciousness then it is one thing...which is equal to no thing.

so then how does no thing be some thing? .... answer: by the knowledge of it, the knowing of it.... is this what you mean by the inter mind ? like some kind of sensory feedback loop

appearing to be some thing via the knowledge ..but not actually any thing at all since ..knowledge has no entity behind it, it's empty? so what i'm trying to say is that the reality known as a physical world of things is a simulated set of empty images appear real ?
From my way of looking at things the Inter Mind is a missing processing stage as described in the "Arguments for the Conscious Mind" section.
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Re: The Inter Mind

Post by Dontaskme »

SteveKlinko wrote: From my way of looking at things the Inter Mind is a missing processing stage as described in the "Arguments for the Conscious Mind" section.
Haven't got to that section yet Steve, but slowly and steadily getting there... :D

Is there no way of closing this gap?
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Re: The Inter Mind

Post by Dontaskme »

SteveKlinko wrote:
People make the statement that all matter has consciousness. I doubt it. Even something as alive as my thumb does not have consciousness. Only the Brain seems to have it. There is no ability to feel with a thumb or move that thumb if the Nerves to it are cut.
Good point. This got me thinking the nerves are like the electrical wires in the cable that supplies electricity to appliances.. . cut them and a short circuit appears rendering consciousness unconscious. . . or put another way, ...working / not working.

My leg has some nerve damage after a bad accident, 6 years ago..the injury seems to have cut off the nerve signals ability to inform the brain the leg has healed, because I'm still getting constant pain felt in the leg, but my doc says the pain is coming from the brain which makes sense, it's kind of locked in there from lack of communication. from the nerves which are damaged . . I'm using conjecture here, not really sure what's happening, so mysterious this body mind mechanism. My doctor and higher up professional hospital medical consultants don't even know what's wrong with me either, had many MRI's and x rays, still no clue.....

..the body is an amazing miraculous instrument ..but when it goes wrong..oh boy is it a right.. (bleep)
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Re: The Inter Mind

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SteveKlinko wrote: If Consciousness was a pervasive thing that existed throughout the whole Body then I should still feel in that thumb because part of my Consciousness would be local to that thumb. Instead what we experience is that the Conscious feeling for that thumb depends on Brain Activity for the thumb. If the signals don't get to the Brain there is no feeling. So it would seem that conscious feeling for that thumb is in the Brain and not in the thumb itself.
Yes, I see what you are saying...but in my leg situation, if I do too much activity, the muscles and tendons in my leg start to get tighter and tighter, until it gets so numb I can hardly walk. . . but the leg is still functional...in that it is alive.

So what I mean when I say that consciousness is in all things . . is in the sense of it being a kind of unconscious consciousness that is present in the bodies cells keeping the leg alive even though the brain is not registering it as felt, that's the sort of consciousness I'm talking about. Our cells must have some sort of their own consciousness as they attempt to keep the separate body parts alive and from dying off from the rest of the living body as a whole.
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Re: The Inter Mind

Post by SteveKlinko »

Dontaskme wrote:
SteveKlinko wrote: If Consciousness was a pervasive thing that existed throughout the whole Body then I should still feel in that thumb because part of my Consciousness would be local to that thumb. Instead what we experience is that the Conscious feeling for that thumb depends on Brain Activity for the thumb. If the signals don't get to the Brain there is no feeling. So it would seem that conscious feeling for that thumb is in the Brain and not in the thumb itself.
Yes, I see what you are saying...but in my leg situation, if I do too much activity, the muscles and tendons in my leg start to get tighter and tighter, until it gets so numb I can hardly walk. . . but the leg is still functional...in that it is alive.

So what I mean when I say that consciousness is in all things . . is in the sense of it being a kind of unconscious consciousness that is present in the bodies cells keeping the leg alive even though the brain is not registering it as felt, that's the sort of consciousness I'm talking about. Our cells must have some sort of their own consciousness as they attempt to keep the separate body parts alive and from dying off from the rest of the living body as a whole.
Who knows, that could be right. We don't have enough understanding of Consciousness yet to know. All options are still on the table. In any case whether it's The Inter Mind or something else the Gap needs to be filled.
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