I Am That I Am Not.

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

Moderators: AMod, iMod

Dontaskme
Posts: 3076
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm

I Am That I Am Not.

Post by Dontaskme » Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:26 pm

ARTIST: Son, how do you make a marble sculpture of an elephant?
SON: That's easy, pop. Ya just chisel away everything that's not an elephant.

User avatar
Harbal
Posts: 3846
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:03 pm
Location: Yorkshire
Contact:

Re: I Am That I Am Not.

Post by Harbal » Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:13 pm

Dontaskme wrote:ARTIST: Son, how do you make a marble sculpture of an elephant?
SON: That's easy, pop. Ya just chisel away everything that's not an elephant.
Does this technique also work with hamsters?

User avatar
vegetariantaxidermy
Posts: 6150
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:45 am
Location: Narniabiznus

Re: I Am That I Am Not.

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:16 pm

''I Am That I Am Not.''
WTF?

Walker
Posts: 4098
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:00 am

Re: I Am That I Am Not.

Post by Walker » Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:33 pm

If you chisel away everything that isn’t a hamster I can't see a clear path as to how you’re going to get an elephant, but there’s a lot I don’t know about marble.

Dontaskme
Posts: 3076
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm

Re: I Am That I Am Not.

Post by Dontaskme » Wed Feb 22, 2017 7:40 am

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:''I Am That I Am Not.''
WTF?
It's a metaphor for BEING.

What you ARE is eternally existent... But,what you ARE NOT aka a concept has never existed...except as an illusion.

User avatar
vegetariantaxidermy
Posts: 6150
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:45 am
Location: Narniabiznus

Re: I Am That I Am Not.

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Wed Feb 22, 2017 7:58 am

Dontaskme wrote:
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:''I Am That I Am Not.''
WTF?
It's a metaphor for BEING.

What you ARE is eternally existent... But,what you ARE NOT aka a concept has never existed...except as an illusion.
Perhaps you meant 'I am what I am not'. That would make a bit more sense.

Dontaskme
Posts: 3076
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm

Re: I Am That I Am Not.

Post by Dontaskme » Wed Feb 22, 2017 8:34 am

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Dontaskme wrote:
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:''I Am That I Am Not.''
WTF?
It's a metaphor for BEING.

What you ARE is eternally existent... But,what you ARE NOT aka a concept has never existed...except as an illusion.
Perhaps you meant 'I am what I am not'. That would make a bit more sense.
Different strokes for different folks.

User avatar
vegetariantaxidermy
Posts: 6150
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:45 am
Location: Narniabiznus

Re: I Am That I Am Not.

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Wed Feb 22, 2017 8:44 am

Dontaskme wrote:
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Dontaskme wrote:
It's a metaphor for BEING.

What you ARE is eternally existent... But,what you ARE NOT aka a concept has never existed...except as an illusion.
Perhaps you meant 'I am what I am not'. That would make a bit more sense.
Different strokes for different folks.
Not really. It doesn't make any sense as it is. That's not subjective. Unless you meant 'I am that. I am not' (that). But that would still be a bit peculiar.

Dontaskme
Posts: 3076
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm

Re: I Am That I Am Not.

Post by Dontaskme » Wed Feb 22, 2017 11:15 am

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Dontaskme wrote:
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Perhaps you meant 'I am what I am not'. That would make a bit more sense.
Different strokes for different folks.
Not really. It doesn't make any sense as it is. That's not subjective. Unless you meant 'I am that. I am not' (that). But that would still be a bit peculiar.
Yes, really. :D

It's only non-sensible to the mind that serves only that which Indivisible into the duality of knower and known.

Awareness is prior to consciousness aka (known) aka(mind)
Therefore,Awareness knows mind, but mind does not know awareness, mind is an aspect of awareness already this all knowing as and through the lens of the mind, an aspect of itself knowing itself only.

In order to know I am that, there also has to be a knowing of I am not that. Opposites appear as two apparently, but are actually complimentary one and the same knower in the exact same instant, namely, NOW the only place there is.

User avatar
vegetariantaxidermy
Posts: 6150
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:45 am
Location: Narniabiznus

Re: I Am That I Am Not.

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Wed Feb 22, 2017 11:49 am

Dontaskme wrote:
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Dontaskme wrote:
Different strokes for different folks.
Not really. It doesn't make any sense as it is. That's not subjective. Unless you meant 'I am that. I am not' (that). But that would still be a bit peculiar.
Yes, really. :D

It's only non-sensible to the mind that serves only that which Indivisible into the duality of knower and known.

Awareness is prior to consciousness aka (known) aka(mind)
Therefore,Awareness knows mind, but mind does not know awareness, mind is an aspect of awareness already this all knowing as and through the lens of the mind, an aspect of itself knowing itself only.

In order to know I am that, there also has to be a knowing of I am not that. Opposites appear as two apparently, but are actually complimentary one and the same knower in the exact same instant, namely, NOW the only place there is.
Ick. :|

Walker
Posts: 4098
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:00 am

Re: I Am That I Am Not.

Post by Walker » Wed Feb 22, 2017 3:38 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Dontaskme wrote:
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Not really. It doesn't make any sense as it is. That's not subjective. Unless you meant 'I am that. I am not' (that). But that would still be a bit peculiar.
Yes, really. :D

It's only non-sensible to the mind that serves only that which Indivisible into the duality of knower and known.

Awareness is prior to consciousness aka (known) aka(mind)
Therefore,Awareness knows mind, but mind does not know awareness, mind is an aspect of awareness already this all knowing as and through the lens of the mind, an aspect of itself knowing itself only.

In order to know I am that, there also has to be a knowing of I am not that. Opposites appear as two apparently, but are actually complimentary one and the same knower in the exact same instant, namely, NOW the only place there is.
Ick. :|
:lol:


Like the bonnie lass who is
when thought of her is not,
Without thought I am is
when thought of I Am is not.
Unlike I am
I am not is only a thought,
Without thought I am not
Is not

User avatar
Greta
Posts: 2828
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2015 8:10 am

Re: I Am That I Am Not.

Post by Greta » Thu Feb 23, 2017 12:29 am

Dontaskme wrote:ARTIST: Son, how do you make a marble sculpture of an elephant?
SON: That's easy, pop. Ya just chisel away everything that's not an elephant.
At times I too have thought about the changes over all these billions of years being akin to a sculpture gradually taking shape. The further we move in time, the more detailed reality becomes.

By the same token, as we age we become ever "more like ourselves". Over the years we are ever more shaped by the conditioning of our nature; increasingly time reveals the impact of the internal and external journeys that our inclinations take us, and thus ultimately define us.

Dontaskme
Posts: 3076
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm

Re: I Am That I Am Not.

Post by Dontaskme » Fri Feb 24, 2017 7:38 am

Greta wrote:
Dontaskme wrote:ARTIST: Son, how do you make a marble sculpture of an elephant?
SON: That's easy, pop. Ya just chisel away everything that's not an elephant.
At times I too have thought about the changes over all these billions of years being akin to a sculpture gradually taking shape. The further we move in time, the more detailed reality becomes.

By the same token, as we age we become ever "more like ourselves". Over the years we are ever more shaped by the conditioning of our nature; increasingly time reveals the impact of the internal and external journeys that our inclinations take us, and thus ultimately define us.
Thanks for your thoughts Greta.

I've never seen it in that vein. I've always seen it from the inside out, in that what we really are has always been, and what we only think we are never was. The OP was my way of a metaphor for that realisation. We are first and foremost spirit having a human experience, not a human having a spiritual experience...but then I don't even think it's spiritual either, to me, spirit sounds too personified ..I'm leaning more towards life being nothing more than the play of shadow and light and sound...nothing special.

I mean why should a human think itself special, why would it believe it is the centre stage ..akin with the God stories of man being made in God image. As if God was a non-physical human and the human was the physical representation of that? ... It doesn't gel with me. No, for me, it's all just nothing being everything which is nothing....some like to call this God, and why not, human called itself human, this energy can call itself what the heck it want's ..it even calls itself energy. I mean what else is nothing going to call itself. What on earth could this possibly be? I know said a thought..lets call it a (.....) and the mind which cannot be found anywhere.... fills in the blank...using sound, nothing more than sound. :wink:

As far as I can see this is nothing more that an endless fictional story about characters that only exist as dream images appearing as if they were real.. which is true in a sense, but what people don't often see, is there is nothing behind the image, the sound, or the light. Some people do see this and I'm one of them.


My gut feeling is that everything the human being ever believed in is nothing but pure fantasy, story and fiction, none of which ever happened.
It's not even cruel to say that either, it's not cruel to go through all this for nothing, when one realises nothing was ever happening anyway.

Animals are going through same scenarios as us, and they don't go around praying to some imaginary God for salvation. They just deal with all the gory process of living and dying without so much as a bat of the eyelid.

.

User avatar
Greta
Posts: 2828
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2015 8:10 am

Re: I Am That I Am Not.

Post by Greta » Fri Feb 24, 2017 10:30 am

Dontaskme wrote:I mean why should a human think itself special, why would it believe it is the centre stage ..akin with the God stories of man being made in God image. As if God was a non-physical human and the human was the physical representation of that? ... It doesn't gel with me.

Yes, this is the limitations of not being able to conceive of entities with greater depth and breadth than ourselves. For instance, the Earth. The whole of humanity is part of the planet's systems- there's (now) technology, plus the older systems of biology, geology, atmosphere, magnetism, tectonics and the interactions between these. The planet is necessarily balancing (or failing to balance) more complex systems than we are, since our systems are contained in its own. By the same token, the body is more complex than the brain on its own, just that the brain is the centre.

Yes, you are looking at it from idea of "us" from the inside - beginning as superdense and superheated protoplasm 13.8 billion years ago and now we are this. It's true, no doubt. Alas, despite our shared heritage we are largely all in it for ourselves. Me too. To borrow an album title, we are each "a part, and yet apart".

Dontaskme
Posts: 3076
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm

Re: I Am That I Am Not.

Post by Dontaskme » Sat Feb 25, 2017 7:37 pm

'' I am not the body. The body is nothing without me. ''

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests