Who's minding the store?

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

Moderators: AMod, iMod

Dontaskme
Posts: 3072
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm

Who's minding the store?

Post by Dontaskme » Fri Oct 14, 2016 3:34 pm

The objectifying mind of man can accomplish many wonderous things.It can build dams, roads and machines that fly to the moon.
But it stumbles in confusion when it mistakes it's own labels for reality.It enters a dream-world shadowland when it blends it's own labels for things that have an actual, material counterpart (rocks and rainbows) with those things with no physicality ( truth and justice).
It lives in a world composed only of adjectives.It thinks that it can arrange it's concepts in neat little rows and build a ladder to what it calls reality.It never dawns that, so far, no one has been able to do that.

OuterLimits
Posts: 229
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2016 11:54 pm

Re: Who's minding the store?

Post by OuterLimits » Fri Oct 14, 2016 5:15 pm

Dontaskme wrote:The objectifying mind of man can accomplish many wonderous things.It can build dams, roads and machines that fly to the moon.
But it stumbles in confusion when it mistakes it's own labels for reality.It enters a dream-world shadowland when it blends it's own labels for things that have an actual, material counterpart (rocks and rainbows) with those things with no physicality ( truth and justice).
It lives in a world composed only of adjectives.It thinks that it can arrange it's concepts in neat little rows and build a ladder to what it calls reality.It never dawns that, so far, no one has been able to do that.
The objectifying mind of man tends to find lots of causes and effects, also it finds ways that things are the result of other smaller things. So, where, it wonders, is "can"? Where is agency? Where is ability? Intention? Are these shadowland labels merely descriptions of things imagined, if everything results from physical particles & laws?

Dontaskme
Posts: 3072
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm

Re: Who's minding the store?

Post by Dontaskme » Fri Oct 14, 2016 5:55 pm

OuterLimits wrote:
Dontaskme wrote:The objectifying mind of man can accomplish many wonderous things.It can build dams, roads and machines that fly to the moon.
But it stumbles in confusion when it mistakes it's own labels for reality.It enters a dream-world shadowland when it blends it's own labels for things that have an actual, material counterpart (rocks and rainbows) with those things with no physicality ( truth and justice).
It lives in a world composed only of adjectives.It thinks that it can arrange it's concepts in neat little rows and build a ladder to what it calls reality.It never dawns that, so far, no one has been able to do that.
The objectifying mind of man tends to find lots of causes and effects, also it finds ways that things are the result of other smaller things. So, where, it wonders, is "can"? Where is agency? Where is ability? Intention? Are these shadowland labels merely descriptions of things imagined, if everything results from physical particles & laws?
Awareness can be thrilling once the illusion of an agency with ability or intention to whom those qualities apply has fallen away.
There are physical particles but the persona of objective mind exists only as swirling memories.

What is a physical particle or a law but words/things composed of thought. Everything works, but no one is working this.

Image

User avatar
Harbal
Posts: 3846
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:03 pm
Location: Yorkshire
Contact:

Re: Who's minding the store?

Post by Harbal » Fri Oct 14, 2016 6:16 pm

Dontaskme wrote:and build a ladder to what it calls reality.It never dawns that, so far, no one has been able to do that.
Why would a rational Human Being reject the version of reality he is equipped to experience -the version his senses are able to capture- in favour of a version that he has to take your word for? In what way would he gain from doing that?

HexHammer
Posts: 2834
Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 8:19 pm

Re: Who's minding the store?

Post by HexHammer » Sat Oct 15, 2016 2:09 am

..everythign for sale!

Dontaskme
Posts: 3072
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm

Re: Who's minding the store?

Post by Dontaskme » Sat Oct 15, 2016 8:53 am

Dontaskme wrote:and build a ladder to what it calls reality.It never dawns that, so far, no one has been able to do that.
Harbal wrote:Why would a rational Human Being reject the version of reality he is equipped to experience
The human being is just an empty conceptual mentally constructed thought, it has no existence outside of consciousness whatsoever. It's an appearance in it. The body is an idea too, but the material mechanical instrumental properties that make up the body is similar to that of a robot, and is built by no thing(consciousness) in order to experience itself. For consciousness can't do anything without it's counter working parts. The body is an object of observation that consciousness uses to explore itself as the phenomenal world, but consciousness is not a part of it and so cannot be expected to be an object of observation. So in essence no human is experiencing anything, there is only the experiencing of consciousness itself. The experiencer is oneness or consciousness. It rejects nothing because it is everything. And being everything it is nothing, in the sense that it's like a flashlight in a dark room that can never shine light on the cause of the illumination.So there's just what's appearing and no one to reject any of it...including all these words and there meanings as they appear. In effect, nothing is ever happening, although it does appear to happen.
Harbal wrote:-the version his senses are able to capture- in favour of a version that he has to take your word for? In what way would he gain from doing that?
Nothing...because who would do that?
Can a sense be captured?

Senses are an experience, but there is no experiencer..who is the experiencer but oneness itself without a second. Senses belong to no one.

Dontaskme
Posts: 3072
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm

Re: Who's minding the store?

Post by Dontaskme » Sat Oct 15, 2016 11:10 am

HexHammer wrote:..everything for sale!
Storekeeper: “I have nothing to sell you.”
Customer: “Please sell me the nothing.”


Existence, non-existence, things, words — none of these things can be found to be truly there in an objective way.

Emptiness is not a synonym for global awareness. There is not just one overall emptiness. Things don’t arise from emptiness or subside back into emptiness. Instead, emptiness is the mode of existence that things have. It means that things cannot be found when looked for closely. Emptiness is not applied to things. That is, things aren’t empty because of something big called “emptiness.” Rather, to be in the first place is already to be empty.Nothing is separate and objective. That which knows = that which is known. In this knowledge there is no beginning or end.No one to take a position.

There is a Zen saying that the birds have no desire to be reflected in the lake, the lake has no desire to reflect the birds, but it still happens. The birds are reflected, the lake reflects, although the desire exists neither on the part of the birds nor on the part of the lake.

source: liberationunleahed.com

HexHammer
Posts: 2834
Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 8:19 pm

Re: Who's minding the store?

Post by HexHammer » Sat Oct 15, 2016 12:12 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
HexHammer wrote:..everything for sale!
Storekeeper: “I have nothing to sell you.”
Customer: “Please sell me the nothing.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCZ4fd9Lnvs

User avatar
Harbal
Posts: 3846
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:03 pm
Location: Yorkshire
Contact:

Re: Who's minding the store?

Post by Harbal » Sat Oct 15, 2016 12:25 pm

Dontaskme wrote: The human being is just an empty conceptual mentally constructed thought, it has no existence outside of consciousness whatsoever.
In order for there to be a thought, there must be an entity having the thought. If this entity perceives itself as a human being and the world it resides in only makes sense to it in this context its only option is to go with it. If you woke up every morning thinking you were no more than a thought you wouldn't even attempt to get out of bed.
In effect, nothing is ever happening, although it does appear to happen.
The appearance of something happening is an event in itself, that is, something that happens.
Can a sense be captured?
It's not the sense that is captured, it's the senses that capture. You're not paying attention to what I'm saying.
Senses are an experience, but there is no experiencer..who is the experiencer but oneness itself without a second. Senses belong to no one.
All I can do is accept that this drivel means something to you, even though you would, no doubt, deny there even is such a thing as you.

Dontaskme
Posts: 3072
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm

Re: Who's minding the store?

Post by Dontaskme » Sat Oct 15, 2016 1:50 pm

Harbal wrote:
It's not the sense that is captured, it's the senses that capture.
Sensations have no inherent identity.

Dontaskme
Posts: 3072
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm

Re: Who's minding the store?

Post by Dontaskme » Sat Oct 15, 2016 2:17 pm

Harbal wrote: In order for there to be a thought, there must be an entity having the thought. If this entity perceives itself as a human being and the world it resides in only makes sense to it in this context its only option is to go with it. If you woke up every morning thinking you were no more than a thought you wouldn't even attempt to get out of bed.
No human being ever got out of bed, the action is an automatic function of oneness/life.

Actions are one unitary movement, actions require no thought. Thought appears after the event, as a re-action(memory)...becoming aware of yourself which can only be as the awareness in which the thought arose. That which awareness is focused on persists. No focus nothing there or happening. The perceiver and the perceived are one in the same moment. There is perceiving....and there is that which is perceived. The perceived cannot perceive.
The only reason the story of you exists is because you're so used to focusing on it. If you didn't keep bringing it up in your thoughts and acting as if it was there there would be nothing that would keep it alive. Nobody else would know it existed. It exists only so long as you buy into it. You are the only one keeping the stories around. They don't exist if you don't keep remembering them and then telling other people about them.

Dontaskme
Posts: 3072
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm

Re: Who's minding the store?

Post by Dontaskme » Sat Oct 15, 2016 2:24 pm

Harbal wrote:
All I can do is accept that this drivel means something to you, even though you would, no doubt, deny there even is such a thing as you.
There is no you to deny you exist, and there is no you to deny you don't exist. Simply because there is no you, there is no you because there is no other than you.

Such is the absurd notion of oneness...unavoidably so....You're not paying attention to what I'm saying.

User avatar
Harbal
Posts: 3846
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:03 pm
Location: Yorkshire
Contact:

Re: Who's minding the store?

Post by Harbal » Sat Oct 15, 2016 2:32 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
There is no you to deny you exist, and there is no you to deny you don't exist. Simply because there is no you, there is no you because there is no other than you.

Such is the absurd notion of oneness...unavoidably so....You're not paying attention to what I'm saying.
So if there is no you, who is it that keeps posting all this kind of rubbish?

Dontaskme
Posts: 3072
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm

Re: Who's minding the store?

Post by Dontaskme » Sat Oct 15, 2016 2:57 pm

Harbal wrote:
Dontaskme wrote:
There is no you to deny you exist, and there is no you to deny you don't exist. Simply because there is no you, there is no you because there is no other than you.

Such is the absurd notion of oneness...unavoidably so....You're not paying attention to what I'm saying.
So if there is no you, who is it that keeps posting all this kind of rubbish?
The same one that's growing the grass, raining the rain, or breathing breath. In other words no one is doing anything, everything just IS-NESS
Asking who is writing here, is like asking who is shining the sun? the sun just shines all by itself.

Humans are seen to possess a fundamentally different nature from the rest of the world, but are instead dependent upon it with no human essence left over. Without the conditions of air, water, earth, minerals, plants, the sun, a moon, ad infinitum, neither consciousness nor any human characteristic could appear, including culture, language, human society, and it's interrelations. Everything is interdependent with no individual core or substance to be found.

The belief in concrete thingness, mistakes the conceptual image of a thing for a real separate thing, mistakes the concept of death for death, the label of consciousness to be consciousness, the image of a me for a separate self.

The notion that consciousness marks humans as divinely distinct, can first be challenged by recognizing that consciousness does not independently exist, but is an interrelational function. What is considered to be conscious, is inseparable from what is not considered to be conscious.

Sensory perception must involve an image of the perception in order for the perception to be noted as having occurred. This image, such as that of a tree, is known as consciousness. Consciousness cannot be separated from sensory perception or from the tree. They are not distinct entities. Thinking, involves the interplay of these sensory-perceptual images. Thinking is not an independent affair either, but a dynamic, interrelated mind-body-world activity.

User avatar
Harbal
Posts: 3846
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:03 pm
Location: Yorkshire
Contact:

Re: Who's minding the store?

Post by Harbal » Sat Oct 15, 2016 3:11 pm

Dontaskme wrote: Thinking is not an independent affair either, but a dynamic, interrelated mind-body-world activity.
There are no such things as mind, body, world or even activity, don't you even read your own nonsense?

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests