What is the use of consciousness when it comes to thought?

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

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bahman
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What is the use of consciousness when it comes to thought?

Post by bahman » Sun Aug 07, 2016 10:27 am

1) We can be conscious of one thought in any given time when we focus on a subject
2) This means that we cannot consciously process thoughts
3) This means that thoughts are processed in our subconscious minds
4) This means that there is no use of consciousness when it come to thought

I am really puzzled with this problem. Your thought?

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Bill Wiltrack
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Re: What is the use of consciousness when it comes to thought?

Post by Bill Wiltrack » Sun Aug 07, 2016 1:07 pm

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I think the problem that you are confronting is actually caused by the way you framed the problem.

Forget conscious & sub-conscious gestalts. These are old and generally non-accepted concepts in modern schools of thought.


There are, physically and philosophically, two halves of our brains. For sake of argument - left side & right side of the brain.

Essentially one side has the ability to watch the other. Basically, that process is what we understand to be consciousness.






.

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bahman
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Re: What is the use of consciousness when it comes to thought?

Post by bahman » Sun Aug 07, 2016 1:38 pm

Bill Wiltrack wrote:.
I think the problem that you are confronting is actually caused by the way you framed the problem.

Forget conscious & sub-conscious gestalts. These are old and generally non-accepted concepts in modern schools of thought.

There are, physically and philosophically, two halves of our brains. For sake of argument - left side & right side of the brain.

Essentially one side has the ability to watch the other. Basically, that process is what we understand to be consciousness.
.
That is not correct. If we can define two halves of brain which they could act independently then we can have two separate experiences at any given time which we can't hence two halves of brain work together.

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Bill Wiltrack
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Re: What is the use of consciousness when it comes to thought?

Post by Bill Wiltrack » Sun Aug 07, 2016 1:58 pm

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Yeah,...um, like I said, you are viewing a framework that doesn't exist. That framework is actually your problem.


The fact that you off-handedly dispense my opinion is telling.

Making an asinine statement that both halves of the brain cannot work simultaneously is below the dignity of this forum.


That's like telling me my right hand cannot move while I raise my right leg.


Like stating we cannot talk while we play the guitar.

Left Brain/Right Brain test.







.

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Bill Wiltrack
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Re: What is the use of consciousness when it comes to thought?

Post by Bill Wiltrack » Sun Aug 07, 2016 2:02 pm

.






You're puzzled because you are not self-conscious enough. That is reflected in the way you stated the problem.

That's the thought that passed through my brain when I read your original post.



Accept it or not. Doesn't matter. There is not a right & a wrong in this instance. Just perspective.






.

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bahman
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Re: What is the use of consciousness when it comes to thought?

Post by bahman » Sun Aug 07, 2016 2:24 pm

Bill Wiltrack wrote:.
Yeah,...um, like I said, you are viewing a framework that doesn't exist. That framework is actually your problem.
The fact that you off-handedly dispense my opinion is telling.
Making an asinine statement that both halves of the brain cannot work simultaneously is below the dignity of this forum.
That's like telling me my right hand cannot move while I raise my right leg.
Like stating we cannot talk while we play the guitar.
Left Brain/Right Brain test..
We can of course do multitasking but each task consume mental resources depending on how much we are well trained on performing a task. We can do two tasks easily at the same time but doing the third thing is very hard even if we are trained well to perform two first tasks. You can try it yourself. You can only perform one task if the subject needs the full mental resources, such as reading a complex book.

Thank you for the link. It told me that I am left brain. It is however unrelated to what we are discussing right now.

Impenitent
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Re: What is the use of consciousness when it comes to thought?

Post by Impenitent » Sun Aug 07, 2016 2:31 pm

what is involved in driving a car?

what are your eyes doing? is that all?

what are your hands doing? is that all?

what are your feet doing? is that all?

what are your ears doing? is that all?

that's at least 4 discreet and different things at once...

aren't you glad you are habitually (in Plato's and Hume's senses) trained?

-Imp

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bahman
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Re: What is the use of consciousness when it comes to thought?

Post by bahman » Sun Aug 07, 2016 3:33 pm

Impenitent wrote: what is involved in driving a car?

what are your eyes doing? is that all?

what are your hands doing? is that all?

what are your feet doing? is that all?

what are your ears doing? is that all?

that's at least 4 discreet and different things at once...

aren't you glad you are habitually (in Plato's and Hume's senses) trained?

-Imp
We can do two things at the same time if we are trained well. Doing more becomes harder and harder.

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Lacewing
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Re: What is the use of consciousness when it comes to thought?

Post by Lacewing » Sun Aug 07, 2016 5:11 pm

According to the brain test, I use my brain equally. Does that mean when it wears out, there will be nothing to fall back on? :D

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Re: What is the use of consciousness when it comes to thought?

Post by Dalek Prime » Sun Aug 07, 2016 8:24 pm

The problem here is that the term 'conscious' and it's derivatives are being bandied around loosely. You'll go nowhere fast doing this.

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bahman
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Re: What is the use of consciousness when it comes to thought?

Post by bahman » Mon Aug 08, 2016 4:09 pm

Dalek Prime wrote: The problem here is that the term 'conscious' and it's derivatives are being bandied around loosely. You'll go nowhere fast doing this.
Lets define consciousness as state of having experience.

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Re: What is the use of consciousness when it comes to thought?

Post by Dalek Prime » Mon Aug 08, 2016 4:17 pm

bahman wrote:
Dalek Prime wrote: The problem here is that the term 'conscious' and it's derivatives are being bandied around loosely. You'll go nowhere fast doing this.
Lets define consciousness as state of having experience.
Yes, or state of being aware. I think what was getting me were terms such as 'self-conscious', which has other connotations. 'Self-aware' would feel more appropriate.

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Re: What is the use of consciousness when it comes to thought?

Post by Dontaskme » Tue Aug 09, 2016 10:23 am

bahman wrote:1) We can be conscious of one thought in any given time when we focus on a subject
2) This means that we cannot consciously process thoughts
3) This means that thoughts are processed in our subconscious minds
4) This means that there is no use of consciousness when it come to thought

I am really puzzled with this problem. Your thought?
Thought is a secondary reality (consciousness) overlaid upon the (pure awareness) unconscious reality we call life which lives as one unitary action.

Who and what you are is UNCONSCIOUSNESS...the conscious aspect of you is triggered by thought which is an overlay falsely placed upon reality.

Without this apparent paradox ...life would be, but nothing would be known about it.

Life lives on the razor's edge of life and death...it doesn't know what's going to happen next. Life is only ever NOW

Life is LIVING ITSELF in a constant state of not knowing. The Knowing comes from thought which is memory or past tense, which is dead. Life can only know itself in relation to death. But death is not an experience or thing to be known... and neither is life...these are pure fantasies or ideas.

In this context death is known as life is known via memory. There is no one living in the not knowing of the eternal now. Just as there is no one in death...or a memory.

The one that knows life and death..lives in past tense of memory...or the projection of the future, both having no reality whatsoever except as conceived via memory. The knower can't live in the now...as the now is this immediate eternal constant flux of pure not knowing aliveness... there is no one knowing or living in this immediate not knowing aliveness as it's happening in realtime....that's what thought does....thought dips in the river of life and creates a sense of someone living that life, it creates a knower..but that someone only exists in the realm of thought which is memory...the dead memory cannot live in the now either, because the now is alive. The now is always and ever this fresh blank screen of awareness through which memory /thoughts of self appear and disappear. The now cannot disappear because without the now.. nothing would/could ever appear to happen.

We are - this is - THE LIVING DEAD.

Life knows how to live itself...there is a knowing presence....but the knower of the presence can never be known because it is the very knowing presence.

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bahman
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Re: What is the use of consciousness when it comes to thought?

Post by bahman » Tue Aug 09, 2016 10:33 am

Dontaskme wrote:
bahman wrote: 1) We can be conscious of one thought in any given time when we focus on a subject
2) This means that we cannot consciously process thoughts
3) This means that thoughts are processed in our subconscious minds
4) This means that there is no use of consciousness when it come to thought

I am really puzzled with this problem. Your thought?
Thought is a secondary reality (consciousness) overlaid upon the (pure awareness) unconscious reality we call life which lives as one unitary action.

Who and what you are is UNCONSCIOUSNESS...the conscious aspect of you is triggered by thought which is an overlay falsely placed upon reality.

Without this apparent paradox ...life would be, but nothing would be known about it.

Life lives on the razor's edge of life and death...it doesn't know what's going to happen next. Life is only ever NOW

Life is LIVING ITSELF in a constant state of not knowing. The Knowing comes from thought which is memory or past tense, which is dead. Life can only know itself in relation to death. But death is not an experience or thing to be known... and neither is life...these are pure fantasies or ideas.

In this context death is known as life is known via memory. There is no one living in the not knowing of the eternal now. Just as there is no one in death...or a memory.

The one that knows life and death..lives in past tense of memory...or the projection of the future, both having no reality whatsoever except as conceived via memory. The knower can't live in the now...as the now is this immediate eternal constant flux of pure not knowing aliveness... there is no one knowing or living in this immediate not knowing aliveness as it's happening in realtime....that's what thought does....thought dips in the river of life and creates a sense of someone living that life, it creates a knower..but that someone only exists in the realm of thought which is memory...the dead memory cannot live in the now either, because the now is alive. The now is always and ever this fresh blank screen of awareness through which memory /thoughts of self appear and disappear. The now cannot disappear because without the now.. nothing would/could ever appear to happen.

We are - this is - THE LIVING DEAD.

Life knows how to live itself...there is a knowing presence....but the knower of the presence can never be known because it is the very knowing presence.
I am sorry but I cannot follow you.

sthitapragya
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Re: What is the use of consciousness when it comes to thought?

Post by sthitapragya » Tue Aug 09, 2016 11:36 am

bahman wrote:
Dontaskme wrote:
bahman wrote: 1) We can be conscious of one thought in any given time when we focus on a subject
2) This means that we cannot consciously process thoughts
3) This means that thoughts are processed in our subconscious minds
4) This means that there is no use of consciousness when it come to thought

I am really puzzled with this problem. Your thought?
Thought is a secondary reality (consciousness) overlaid upon the (pure awareness) unconscious reality we call life which lives as one unitary action.

Who and what you are is UNCONSCIOUSNESS...the conscious aspect of you is triggered by thought which is an overlay falsely placed upon reality.

Without this apparent paradox ...life would be, but nothing would be known about it.

Life lives on the razor's edge of life and death...it doesn't know what's going to happen next. Life is only ever NOW

Life is LIVING ITSELF in a constant state of not knowing. The Knowing comes from thought which is memory or past tense, which is dead. Life can only know itself in relation to death. But death is not an experience or thing to be known... and neither is life...these are pure fantasies or ideas.

In this context death is known as life is known via memory. There is no one living in the not knowing of the eternal now. Just as there is no one in death...or a memory.

The one that knows life and death..lives in past tense of memory...or the projection of the future, both having no reality whatsoever except as conceived via memory. The knower can't live in the now...as the now is this immediate eternal constant flux of pure not knowing aliveness... there is no one knowing or living in this immediate not knowing aliveness as it's happening in realtime....that's what thought does....thought dips in the river of life and creates a sense of someone living that life, it creates a knower..but that someone only exists in the realm of thought which is memory...the dead memory cannot live in the now either, because the now is alive. The now is always and ever this fresh blank screen of awareness through which memory /thoughts of self appear and disappear. The now cannot disappear because without the now.. nothing would/could ever appear to happen.

We are - this is - THE LIVING DEAD.

Life knows how to live itself...there is a knowing presence....but the knower of the presence can never be known because it is the very knowing presence.
I am sorry but I cannot follow you.
Don't worry too much about it. He cannot either.

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