Does not having free will mean there's no consciousness?
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Does not having free will mean there's no consciousness?
It would seem so. I equate consciousness with existence which would imply I have limited free will, otherwise who is doing the willing?
PhilX
PhilX
Re: Does not having free will mean there's no consciousness?
Please clarify.Philosophy Explorer wrote:It would seem so. I equate consciousness with existence which would imply I have limited free will, otherwise who is doing the willing?
PhilX
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Re: Does not having free will mean there's no consciousness?
What don't you understand?tbieter wrote:Please clarify.Philosophy Explorer wrote:It would seem so. I equate consciousness with existence which would imply I have limited free will, otherwise who is doing the willing?
PhilX
PhilX
Re: Does not having free will mean there's no consciousness?
Does an unconscious thing have a will?
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Re: Does not having free will mean there's no consciousness?
Consciousness guarantees limited free will while unconsciousness may or may not, depending.tbieter wrote:Does an unconscious thing have a will?
PhilX
Re: Does not having free will mean there's no consciousness?
"Free-will" equates to "conscious control". Neither exists. So then we are left with just being 'experiencing machines', nothing more.Philosophy Explorer wrote:Does not having free will mean there's no consciousness?
The word "consciousness" was invented to create a feel-good experience; to create an aura of mystical-ness; to satisfy the desires of autonomy and specialness.
"Consciousness" is nothing more than "experiences".
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Re: Does not having free will mean there's no consciousness?
Do you believe in limited free will? Do you believe in " I think, therefore I exist?" as free will would lead to thinking. Are you conscious of yourself?RG1 wrote:"Free-will" equates to "conscious control". Neither exists. So then we are left with just being 'experiencing machines', nothing more.Philosophy Explorer wrote:Does not having free will mean there's no consciousness?
The word "consciousness" was invented to create a feel-good experience; to create an aura of mystical-ness; to satisfy the desires of autonomy and specialness.
"Consciousness" is nothing more than "experiences".
PhilX
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Re: Does not having free will mean there's no consciousness?
No. If I'm a puppet, I may not be aware of that fact, but it doesn't lessen my experience of my puppet life.
Last edited by Dalek Prime on Mon Jan 25, 2016 1:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Does not having free will mean there's no consciousness?
No, there is no free-will at all.Philosophy Explorer wrote: Do you believe in limited free will?
Well, since we really don’t “think” (create thoughts), as we can only ‘experience’ thoughts. So I believe “I experience thoughts (and feelings and sensory awareness), therefore I (the experiencer) exist.Philosophy Explorer wrote:Do you believe in "I think, therefore I exist?" as free will would lead to thinking
If you mean, can I experience myself? Then no, not possible. I can only experience experiences, not objects themselves directly.Philosophy Explorer wrote:Are you conscious of yourself?
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Re: Does not having free will mean there's no consciousness?
There's no reason with why you should equate consciousness with existence. Do you even have a solid meaning behind talking about "existence"? Or did you mean to say that consciousness "implies" existence, so that your actual question is whether or not consciousness (of something) should imply the existence (of something)... ?Philosophy Explorer wrote:I equate consciousness with existence
PhilX
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Re: Does not having free will mean there's no consciousness?
It's not so much equating existence to consciousness; existence is the precursor to consciousness. And as I experience, it doesn't matter whether I am capable of choosing the experience or not. I'm still aware of it.The Voice of Time wrote:There's no reason with why you should equate consciousness with existence. Do you even have a solid meaning behind talking about "existence"? Or did you mean to say that consciousness "implies" existence, so that your actual question is whether or not consciousness (of something) should imply the existence (of something)... ?Philosophy Explorer wrote:I equate consciousness with existence
PhilX
There's a lot of incorrect equating going on here.
Re: Does not having free will mean there's no consciousness?
There is no existence out there, except what the subjective puts there. Consciousness is the connecting link between subjective nature(unconscious awareness) and the object known (consciousness).Philosophy Explorer wrote:I equate consciousness with existence
PhilX
There is something out-there evidenced by the subjective experience. Who or what is experiencing subjectively can never be known since there is nothing outside the subjective experience separate from the subject.
Intention is the rider of the will.
Consciousness is you.
There is nothing outside of you but you.
You are consciously directing your own life.
What ever consciousness clings to will become it's reality ... and yet at the same time consciousness is totally void of anything at all times.
Any thing inside consciousness is it's own generated idea, we can call these reality maps, or stored memory from (unconscious awareness) when a thought is owned by becoming conscious of, it becomes real to the subject. So say there is a fear thought. That thought will become real to you, even though there is no such thing as fear except an idea. The consciousness is quite capable of unhinging from all troubling thoughts, and in doing so returns to it's natural balanced resting state of unconscious awareness which is true reality.
Re: Does not having free will mean there's no consciousness?
They sound very closely related to me. If, as you say, 'existence' refers to 'things', I only know of things if I am conscious of them.daramantus wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:20 am Nope. consciousness is not existence. Both are totally distinct topics and has different meaning and definitions, are separate topics for they are not even related. existence emans something is existent, and has existence, in comparison to something which doesn't.
Consciousness is what you have now that makes you conscious of your surroundings.
If that was the case, then we cannot say of anything that is doesn't exist. There may be fairies and unicorns and flying teapots all over the place - we just haven't, or can't, discover them. And, if there is no connection between things existing and our being conscious of them, who is to say that those newly discovered planets exist?Existence 'out there' would simply mean, an object 'out there' in Italia, that you're not seeing, observing, being conscious or aware of or knowing about its existence, and yet, the object, remains as it is, it has existence. that's why we find new planets that was never discovered before, because they exist, without anyone noticing, knowing r being aware of them.
Either we know that things exist because we have become conscious of them, as with those new planets, or consciousness has nothing to do with existence, as you say in your first paragraph.
Re: Does not having free will mean there's no consciousness?
You have shifted your ground. There is a difference between saying CONSCIOUSNESS DO NOT EQUAL EXISTENCE and what you said earlier:daramantus wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:22 am
Existence, means to exist, have inherent existence. To have its own substance, huh? who is saying anything about unicorns here? Of course consciousness DO NOT equal EXISTENCE, both are totally distinct topics and that's not even debatable. You have consciousness, and you do exist, the tree has no consciousness. but still 'exist' in its way.
CONSCIOUSNESS DO NOT EQUAL EXISTENCE.
Certainly the two words 'consciousness' and 'existence' are not synonyms, but they are 'related'.Both are totally distinct topics and has different meaning and definitions, are separate topics for they are not even related.
Suppose you say the tree exists, but I say it doesn't. How might we resolve our disagreement?
(But remembering that if 'existence' and 'consciousness' are not even related, we are not allowed to refer to anything in our consciousness, for example that we can see or touch the tree).
If, given that restriction, we have no way of explaining what we mean if we assert the tree 'exists', then that claim is meaningless.