Do you need consciousness to have emotion?

[raw_thought]

By definition if something is not conscious it cannot feel anything.It cannot even know anything. A computer can spit out "1+1=2" However, to the computer those symbols are meaningless. For example an "ON" light switch does not know that the light is on.

[raw_thought]

I'm sure that question is on many people's minds with this new robot (and I bet you it is a learning robot):

http://qz.com/433877/robots-in-japan-now-have-emotions/

PhilX

Emotions are a social construct. We learn to use the language of emotion at an early age because adults and others teach us informally and formally to use such language. We are all pretty fuzzy on our use of emotion language because others have no idea what we actually feel at the time they try to teach us. They look for certain collateral behavior (crying, smiling, frowning) to make some general judgements, but there are many examples with humans where the overt behavior is inconsistent with the person's description of what is going on within the skin.
We also have a very limited understanding of how our nervous systems get involved at times when we would like to talk about emotions. It just seems like some sort of strange anthroporphism to talk about emotions and robots.

That is like saying that rocks are a social construct because we label them rocks,granite etc. Everything is a social construct! When a definition applies to everything it becomes meaningless.

[Briancrc]

That is like saying that rocks are a social construct because we label them rocks,granite etc. Everything is a social construct! When a definition applies to everything it becomes meaningless.

I agree with your last sentence, but disagree with your assessment. Object labels have been distinguished from social constructs

a social construct is an idea or notion that appears to be natural and obvious to people who accept it but may or may not represent reality, so it remains largely an invention or artifice of a given society.

Our labels of course are arbitrary. Move to another society and you likely make different sounds to label the same object (i.e., you speak a different language). Some emotion words in English have no translation in some other languages and vice versa. Some verb tenses, and therefore, some concepts, do not exist but in the culture that uses them.

[raw_thought]

I feel love and hate regardless if I know what to call those feelings.
They are more then just a social construct. Babies cry before any social influence.

[Briancrc]

I feel love and hate regardless if I know what to call those feelings.
They are more then just a social construct. Babies cry before any social influence.

True, babies do come biologically prepared to cry. However, the environment teaches the baby to cry under different conditions. When a baby cries, it's mother will try different things to sooth it (e.g., give it the breast, pick it up and bounce it, get close and make different noises) and some of those things will cease the crying. Over time the crying sounds will be altered by the mother's responses and the mother will be able to discriminate the cries of the baby. The mother will say, "that cry tells me he's hungry" another cry will indicate illness (e.g., ear infection). The effect of soothing the baby (I.e., ceasing the crying) will strengthen the responses of the mother and teach her how to sooth more quickly in the future.
Later, when the child begins to experiment with vocalizations and gains some control over those vocalizations, the mother's narration ("oh why are you so fussy today") starts to associate feeling language with behavior. The child will come to imitate the language under similar conditions, but it could only be a fuzzy description of internal states as our nervous systems have not evolved to the point that we can identify where in our body certain processes are taking place and other people do not have access to the internal states of our body. For example, how would one know how to teach another when to say that they are embarrassed or nervous? We do it, but it's not by knowing what is going on inside the person.

[bergie15]

I don't know if you can really teach someone how to say they are embarrassed. The person just knows what they are feeling, and then they say so. Though I suppose a child could learn how to do that by seeing one of their parents do it.

[Dalek Prime]

Do you need to create more consiousness? Start with more important ethical questions first. My answer? No. So why take it further, unless you plan to ignore both lack of necessity and ethical questions?

Sound familiar? Yep. Scientists seem to ignore both regularly.

[Obvious Leo]

The question simply reflects a poor use of language by conflating consciousness with awareness. In the Santiago school of cognition to which I as well as most modern biologists adhere consciousness is defined quite technically in terms of information transfer. Thus we could say that heliotropism is a process by which a plant cognises the sun and responds by turning its leaves towards it. No mystical new age assumptions of plant awareness are inferred from this because the Santiago model is simply an information theory which deals with the reciprocal nature of causation in dynamic physical systems. Likewise we can say that the moon and the earth cognise each other because of gravity and behave accordingly by orbiting each other.

I think the titular question in the OP might better be addressed by maintaining this distinction between consciousness and awareness because awareness is a higher-order cognitive function which can only be attributed to organisms with embodied minds. Awareness is a spectrum phenomenon which can be assumed to be both qualitatively and quantitatively different between one species and another and indeed even between one individual and another so to draw a line in the sand between which species have it and which don't strikes me as faintly ludicrous. If we imagine a tree of sentience, with the simplest of organisms with minds at the bottom and the uber-predator homo at the top, then whereabouts up this tree can we say that awareness actually begins. Does an earthworm have it? Well hardly, but let's not be too hard on our annelid friends because they've got as much as they need. Does a spider have it? Almost certainly because a spider makes choices and learns from his mistakes as long as they're not fatal ones. Obviously all the birds and mammals have awareness because all of them have the capacity for learning and thus becoming more aware as they transact their own life's journey. Biochemically these organisms are no different from us because their behaviour is affected by the same neuro-chemical and electro-chemical information as our own so perhaps a better question to pose for the OP might be this one.

What the hell is emotion?

[Philosophy Explorer]

The question simply reflects a poor use of language by conflating consciousness with awareness. In the Santiago school of cognition to which I as well as most modern biologists adhere consciousness is defined quite technically in terms of information transfer. Thus we could say that heliotropism is a process by which a plant cognises the sun and responds by turning its leaves towards it. No mystical new age assumptions of plant awareness are inferred from this because the Santiago model is simply an information theory which deals with the reciprocal nature of causation in dynamic physical systems. Likewise we can say that the moon and the earth cognise each other because of gravity and behave accordingly by orbiting each other.

I think the titular question in the OP might better be addressed by maintaining this distinction between consciousness and awareness because awareness is a higher-order cognitive function which can only be attributed to organisms with embodied minds. Awareness is a spectrum phenomenon which can be assumed to be both qualitatively and quantitatively different between one species and another and indeed even between one individual and another so to draw a line in the sand between which species have it and which don't strikes me as faintly ludicrous. If we imagine a tree of sentience, with the simplest of organisms with minds at the bottom and the uber-predator homo at the top, then whereabouts up this tree can we say that awareness actually begins. Does an earthworm have it? Well hardly, but let's not be too hard on our annelid friends because they've got as much as they need. Does a spider have it? Almost certainly because a spider makes choices and learns from his mistakes as long as they're not fatal ones. Obviously all the birds and mammals have awareness because all of them have the capacity for learning and thus becoming more aware as they transact their own life's journey. Biochemically these organisms are no different from us because their behaviour is affected by the same neuro-chemical and electro-chemical information as our own so perhaps a better question to pose for the OP might be this one.

What the hell is emotion?

In answer to your last question, are you human?

PhilX

[Obvious Leo]

In answer to your last question, are you human?

No. I'm a Tralfamadorian talent scout on a secret mission in search of appropriate exhibits for our famous inter-galactic zoo. In particular I'm on the lookout for suitable male exhibits to introduce into our breeding programme featuring an aging Montana Wildhack, but since this vivacious lady's best breeding days are rapidly slipping away there is a degree of urgency about my mission, as I'm sure you'll understand. Thus far I've been somewhat disappointed at the range of options available to me on your planet and I'm considering moving off in search of a more promising territory very soon.

[Philosophy Explorer]

In answer to your last question, are you human?

No. I'm a Tralfamadorian talent scout on a secret mission in search of appropriate exhibits for our famous inter-galactic zoo. In particular I'm on the lookout for suitable male exhibits to introduce into our breeding programme featuring an aging Montana Wildhack, but since this vivacious lady's best breeding days are rapidly slipping away there is a degree of urgency about my mission, as I'm sure you'll understand. Thus far I've been somewhat disappointed at the range of options available to me on your planet and I'm considering moving off in search of a more promising territory very soon.

If you're looking for male specimens, try Dalek Prime.

PhilX

[Obvious Leo]

An anti-natalist is not exactly the sort of material I'm looking for, Phil, and in any event I think I recall him mentioning that he's had the unkindest cut of all. However I guess if all else fails I can always simply kidnap him and instruct my ship's surgeon to perform the reverse procedure on him on the way back home.

[Blueswing]

I'm sure that question is on many people's minds with this new robot

Emotion is a manifestation of consciousness, emotions are experienced. The question probably is on many people's minds, many people are very confused about this topic, which makes it interesting to me.

[Hobbes' Choice]

I'm sure that question is on many people's minds with this new robot

Emotion is a manifestation of consciousness, emotions are experienced. The question probably is on many people's minds, many people are very confused about this topic, which makes it interesting to me.

Are you sure that you have it the right way round? Maybe consciousness is a manifestation of emotion? ANd it might be the case that all animals over a certain evolved state have and emotional response to things, but only develop an awareness of these emotions much later in evolution?

Or maybe the very division between awareness and emotion is false, and without any merit at all.

[Blueswing]

Are you sure that you have it the right way round? Maybe consciousness is a manifestation of emotion?

I'm sure I have it the right way round. It is possible to have consciousness without emotion (for example one might experience a flash of light or a pinprick without emotion) but it is not possible to have emotion without consciousness.

Try it yourself sometime when you are unconscious.