SteveKlinko wrote: ↑Fri Jun 23, 2017 3:58 pm
We are a Physical thing and we are a Conscious thing. I can conceptually separate the two things.
I'm assuming you mean we can know who we are as a conceptual object? which appears to separate the knower from the known?
SteveKlinko wrote: ↑Fri Jun 23, 2017 3:58 pm The two things are connected somehow.
They are connected only in the knowledge of conceptual opposites. Otherwise there is no separation there. There is only subject (not thing) objectifying itself (thing)..yes, or no ?
SteveKlinko wrote: ↑Fri Jun 23, 2017 3:58 pmSo if we can study the Physical thing then we should be able to study the Conscious thing. We know that the Conscious thing is correlated with the Physical thing.
I'm not sure about this Steve. The physical thing being an illusory concept of consciousness. It would be like the contents of consciousness(concepts) looking for consciousness, when already consciousness is knowing and the source of all concepts. A concept cannot know it's source, but the source can know a concept.
SteveKlinko wrote: ↑Fri Jun 23, 2017 3:58 pm I always like to go back to something simple like how is it that we experience the color Red? We know two things: 1) Neurons Fire and 2) a Red Experience happens.
The colour Red...is an experience of consciousness, it's an illusory reflection of light. No thing (concept) has ever experienced consciousness as I've already explained above. The Red experience is an appearance of no thing Consciousness only...yes, or no?
SteveKlinko wrote: ↑Fri Jun 23, 2017 3:58 pm The question is how do the Neurons Firing result in a Conscious experience of Red? This is the David Chalmers Hard Problem of Consciousness.
It's only hard because it (consciousness)can't be seen or located, meaning that it must be everywhere and nowhere as one whole thing interacting with itself only. Consciousness is not in and of itself an experience, an experience is an appearance in it...that only it has, there is no separate thing to have the experience of consciousness... because all experiences are inseparable from the experiencer consciousness. It appears there are separate experiences of this and that...but that's the illusion in the sense a shadow is inseparable from the light. There is only this..and that is only ever this.
Sounds too obvious and simple I know..
SteveKlinko wrote: ↑Fri Jun 23, 2017 3:58 pmScientists will not study this because it seems to require a special status for Consciousness that is possibly outside of Science.
Yes, and believe it or not Steve, what is used to study anything is consciousness, there is nothing outside of it to study, no objective world exists except as a reflected image of the imageless consciousness.
SteveKlinko wrote: ↑Fri Jun 23, 2017 3:58 pmThey sweep this Problem under the rug with statements like the Brain creates a Model, or a representation, or an Association to create the Conscious experience.
That model has an uncanny resemblance to a computer...whereby invisible data from it's memory chip inside is made manifest as knowledge and recognisable images and symbols when electricity surges through the mechanism from outside...and without that electricity, nothing can be seen or known...but any knowing automatically becomes known as the electricity makes contact with the stored memory, so it's as if, the light is re-cognizing itself as and through it's own memory store.
When awareness (father)knows sensation(mother) consciousness is born (son) < it takes 3 to tango ..lol
< all the same interconnected no / things.. appearances of that which has no beginning or end...the eternal source of everything.
SteveKlinko wrote: ↑Fri Jun 23, 2017 3:58 pmThese are always dodges that don't explain the thing.
Perhaps, but what cannot be known cannot be known. I see it very simply, any relative idea about the absolute would be absurd. Only the absolute has absolute knowing.
SteveKlinko wrote: ↑Fri Jun 23, 2017 3:58 pmThey are just giving the Problem another name.
Yes, all they do is replace one illusion with another.If the truth had wanted to be known it would have been known by now. Humans cannot handle the truth.
SteveKlinko wrote: ↑Fri Jun 23, 2017 3:58 pm But this does not mean I think that Consciousness wont be studied and explained some day. I just try to get people to think outside the box on Consciousness.
Well Steve, the only thing outside the box is the content of the box...no thing has moved ...also worth considering is supposing we do one day explain consciousness...that would have terrifying consequences for reality, because then one would be able to build a machine that could potentially take over the world and destroy all biological life as we know it....not a good idea, if that came to fruition we'd be constantly at war with our own creation...remember the film '' I Robot ''
Hmm, like that is ever going to happen eh..I think nature was very wise when she decided not to make copies..
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