What's the Difference Between the Narration in Your Head...

[Bill Wiltrack]

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I don't want to take the chance if insulting you but you actually reading this statement is, in this moment, actually that narrative voice that I have been referring to.


The tricky part is that most individuals do not have the insight; the ability to dis-associate themselves from this inner voice.


That is why I am soooo obsessed with doing the dis-associative exercises in my consciousness as I physically push myself to my limit in the gym.


My inner life, as a philosopher depends upon me being able to dis-associate from my self. Even if only for a few uncertain moments.This, for me, makes a philosophy REAL. All other philosophy is just bullshit, often times whose sole purpose is to inflate the very ego that I believe we need to see through.


My $00.02.






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[Arising_uk]

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I don't want to take the chance if insulting you but you actually reading this statement is, in this moment, actually that narrative voice that I have been referring to.

But there is no story or other involved in the sense of it not being me that is having the thought that I have when verbalising the words that you have typed to, presumably, express yours. I say presumably as you appear to think that its not you who is doing the thinking but some other who is narrating to you what you think.

The tricky part is that most individuals do not have the insight; the ability to dis-associate themselves from this inner voice.

Don't tell me, you think yourself one of these individuals. Its not about disassociation as that is the route to madness and confusion. If you want to stop verbalising your thoughts, i.e. thinking in language, and think only in the representations that the senses provide then there are useful techniques to be found in NLP and meditation, although they have different aims and goals.

That is why I am soooo obsessed with doing the dis-associative exercises in my consciousness as I physically push myself to my limit in the gym.

Nah! You're just an endorphin junkie. I've told you before, you wish to achieve satori or enlightenment then leave your cozy little world and sign-up with a zen or buddhist monastery for four to five years of strict meditative discipline, exercise and work.

My inner life, as a philosopher depends upon me being able to dis-associate from my self. Even if only for a few uncertain moments.This, for me, makes a philosophy REAL. All other philosophy is just bullshit, often times whose sole purpose is to inflate the very ego that I believe we need to see through.

And yet all you describe is all your egotistical self at work. Philosophy is not about disassociation of self but the training of self to think clearly about things. You appear far from this goal.

[Bill Wiltrack]

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I fall far short on MANY goals.


One thing that you or I will never do is find the right answer.


Philosophy is ultimately NOT intellectual. THERE IS NO RIGHT ANSWER to find.


Philosophy - REAL philosophy is a state of being. An experience of momentariry reality & your perspective of yourself within that reality in that moment.


...best I can describe right now.


OFF to my church for some silent prayer.



Good luck to all.

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[henry quirk]

Arising,

Seems to me Bill has fallen prey to the fucked up idea that 'he' is not the natural voice in his head but is sumthin' deeper, purer.

That voice is nuthin' but Bill reflecting back on himself...it's part of what makes him, as a human individual, possible...but: Bill doesn't want any part of that (cuz he wants to be 'more').

Silencing that voice, that narration, is easy: suicide.

Or: one can crack and take on the role of demon-possessed (schizophrenic).

Or: one can accept that one is a filthy, murderous, ape-variant and get on with things.

I like being a filthy, murderous, ape-variant.

Bill doesn't.

[Bill Wiltrack]

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I feel consciousness...self-consciousness is purer. Is less. Is deeper.



The narration; the voice inside, or outside of our heads, is pretty common.





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Quieting that inner voice, that inner narration, just for a while could allow for self-consciousness. But it is a TREMENDOUS effort to try time & time again to quiet that inner voice.


When I pray there is nothing but silence. Self observation.





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[Blaggard]

I'm not entirely sure why people have to compartmentalise consciousness, self consciousness is consciousness, stop mislabeling it sure there are higher functions of consciousness and lower ones although one could argue they all operate around the same gestalt, but they still are all consciousness and sometimes self consciousness looks exactly like a lack of any consciousness to all intents and purposes philosophically or scientifically.

You think you are awake you are conscious supposedly, there are very few things that are truly subconscious, and it is impossible to devolve so called things like dreams from consciousness without acknowledging that fact. A dream is not really subconscious as such, in that, and I want to be specific there is no division between the conscious mind and the sleeping one as far as we know in science say, sure let's go that route it couldn't hurt: all that seems to change is the communication between brain areas and the ability to do so, they seem to be more diffuse and take longer in the dream state, and some areas don't seem able to communicate at all, but then at other time maddeningly do do, and rapidly and faster than they do when conscious, and even more annoyingly with exactly the same precision as they do when conscious, and with the exact same picture on an a computer screen as consciousness does. The mind is processing factory that has many sub divisions, it doesn't work like a computer, and it seems facile that people continue to make analogies that way, you send a memory to the processing unit, it decides where to send it and how, it is rooted to the x part of the brain via y. Now 1) you can acknowledge that this maddeningly vague state of affairs throw up too many unknowns to even reliably explain what consciousness is let alone the difference between sub conscious and it. Or you could take a ride through the rabbit hole, into wonderland, and of course there is no harm in that, as long as you don't think the rabbit hole is like the rabbit whole. Put it this way in science no one can show you where consciousness ends and sub consciousness begins. In philosophy we discuss where it might, and with good reason, but we are as much in the know as science is. We know shit. And to get to the point in science it seems we have no idea what the difference is specifically between being conscious and being unconscious, it's bewilderingly all the same depending. In fact in science at least they don't call anything conscious or subconscious because no one can really tell the difference in any absolute or definitive way anywhere in any specific place on a scan of the brain. Ok Autonomic nervous system, fine sub conscious we continue to breathe, the heart continues to beat regardless, even sometimes when most of our brain associated with higher function is completely destroyed leaving us like a vegetable.

Here's the skiny people the whole brain, or at least the whole parts of it that work at any time are a network, there's no digital, it functions on analogue, you might think of an apple one day, and the same apple the next you had a memory of but from one day to the next it would never be the same apple. We can show this in physiology but that is a blunt tool, we can intuit it in philosophy, as the science stands, a sharper one. Let's be honest we're all dancing around to a tune we don't understand, can barely hear, and we have no sense of rythmn and we cant spell rythmne either. Not that we shouldn't talk the talk, but we should be honest when we are constantly falling over our own feet because we have no feet or in fact no arms, or in fact eyes or ears.

Talk the talk of course, but do not think you are walking the walk without legs.

Please don't take this as an opportunity to say dualism hence rules, because it would be so disappointing to assume that given what I said I think the whole of philosophy would die a little. Not that it is wrong by that means, but not knowing is not the same as score for the other team. Let's keep it logical.

[Arising_uk]

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Quieting that inner voice, that inner narration, just for a while could allow for self-consciousness. But it is a TREMENDOUS effort to try time & time again to quiet that inner voice. ...

You're not using the correct techniques then.

[Bill Wiltrack]

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Self-consciousness is impossible. Then if you keep trying & trying & trying it becomes possible - MAYBE.


Then, if you continue to practice & fail & fail & fail it becomes POSSIBLY a bit easier.


Even then, you walk through the raindrops & fate is your ultimate master.



So be it.

Even facing the impossibility of it all REACHING for self-consciousness is the only game, once you taste it.



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[Arising_uk]

Self-consciousness is impossible. Then if you keep trying & trying & trying it becomes possible - MAYBE.

You already are self-conscious, well maybe you're not but for the rest of us its pretty much the norm.

If by 'self-consciousness' you mean stilling your internal voice then check out NLP as the techniques are there and easy to understand and practice.

Then, if you continue to practice & fail & fail & fail it becomes POSSIBLY a bit easier.

Even then, you walk through the raindrops & fate is your ultimate master.

So be it.

Even facing the impossibility of it all REACHING for self-consciousness is the only game, once you taste it.

You're not talking about self-consciousness you're talking about some happening you had once and want again. Whats stopping you?

By-the-by, this "Self-consciousness is impossible. Then if you keep trying & trying & trying it becomes possible - MAYBE", is a flat out logical contradiction, its either impossible or its not. If the latter then try techniques that actually work, i.e. NLP's stilling the voice or uptime but given what you appear to wish I'd recommend leaving America and spending four to five years in a true Zen or Buddhist monastery. Still, I doubt actually achieving what you want is your aim as in reality you're just a gnu searching for acolytes and approbation.

[Bill Wiltrack]

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Yes. I have been unable to even approach what happened to me over 40 years ago.


Tried every angle. Tried rejecting & ignoring. Tried nothing. Tried harder.


I'm chasing the philosophical dragon without much success. But there is no alternative for me.



Wasn't even able to obtain a moment of self-consciousness in the gym yesterday.


But I had changed-up one of my stimulant and added another that was quite strong. Too strong in a way.



But still I try.


Philosophy, REAL life philosophy is my life bread. There is no alternative for me at this point.





Thank you for responding.




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[Arising_uk]

Personally I think you should just return to your faith.

[Bill Wiltrack]

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I have faith in the inherent good of Organized Labor.


Since I found this, I have never wandered. Therefore I cannot return.




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[Arising_uk]

.I have faith in the inherent good of Organized Labor.

Since I found this, I have never wandered. Therefore I cannot return.
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And yet it has not replaced the religious faith you had when young and instead you fruitlessly search through nihilism and destruction for it. My advice, return to your faith before you do yourself more of a mischief.

[Bill Wiltrack]

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..............................................Your faith? Where has it brought you?



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[Arising_uk]

...............................................Your faith? Where has it brought you?.

What faith are you talking about?