Shouldn't there be a "History of Philosophy" forum?

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There should be a "History of Philosophy" forum on this website.

Good idea
12
80%
Bad idea
1
7%
Indifferent
2
13%
 
Total votes: 15

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Gary Childress
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Shouldn't there be a "History of Philosophy" forum?

Post by Gary Childress » Wed May 04, 2016 2:45 pm

I was thinking about starting a thread to inquire about and discuss Socrates as a historical figure but such a topic doesn't seem to fit in very well in any forum except maybe the "general" forum. But in some senses it doesn't seem like it should really go there either. It sort of seems like there should be a "History of Philosophy" forum or some sort of forum dedicated specifically to discussing the thoughts and ideas of past philosophers or great thinkers. What do others think? Good idea or bad idea?

Thanks.

FlashDangerpants
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Re: Shouldn't there be a "History of Philosophy" forum?

Post by FlashDangerpants » Wed May 04, 2016 8:57 pm

Would it get misused a philosophy of history forum?

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Gary Childress
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Re: Shouldn't there be a "History of Philosophy" forum?

Post by Gary Childress » Wed May 04, 2016 10:01 pm

FlashDangerpants wrote:Would it get misused a philosophy of history forum?
Hmm. Well, a stickied thread at the top of the forum could maybe spell out the difference for people. Maybe title the stickied thread: "This forum is History of Philosophy NOT Philosophy of History."

And/or

Since philosophy of history is also a very interesting topic right beside philosophy of science and philosophy of religion, why not have both a history of philosophy forum and a philosophy of history forum side by side?

Just some random thoughts. :idea:

mickthinks
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Re: Shouldn't there be a "History of Philosophy" forum?

Post by mickthinks » Sat May 07, 2016 12:09 am

The thing with philosophy is that, unlike almost all other endeavours, we don't distinguish our past from our present much, if at all. The ancient greeks may have lived and taught a long time ago, but what they said is treated today as material to be grappeled with, contested, debated and dissected as if it had been said yesterday. I am sure the history of philosophy is of interest to historians, but to us philosophers, there is little or no interest in it as a separate study. I reckon there's nothing one could say about any of the ideas of the old philosophers which can't be said under the appropriate contemporary headings of Ethics, Epistemology, Aesthetics, Religion etc.

Put simply, it's a mistake to imagine just because you can think of a forum heading we don't have, that there must be a need for it.

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Gary Childress
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Re: Shouldn't there be a "History of Philosophy" forum?

Post by Gary Childress » Sat May 07, 2016 3:03 am

mickthinks wrote:The thing with philosophy is that, unlike almost all other endeavours, we don't distinguish our past from our present much, if at all. The ancient greeks may have lived and taught a long time ago, but what they said is treated today as material to be grappeled with, contested, debated and dissected as if it had been said yesterday. I am sure the history of philosophy is of interest to historians, but to us philosophers, there is little or no interest in it as a separate study. I reckon there's nothing one could say about any of the ideas of the old philosophers which can't be said under the appropriate contemporary headings of Ethics, Epistemology, Aesthetics, Religion etc.

Put simply, it's a mistake to imagine just because you can think of a forum heading we don't have, that there must be a need for it.
Well, that's why I put it as a poll, to see what others thought of it.

What about a forum titled "famous philosophers" or something. I'm sure many of us who have studied philosophy in the university have probably taken classes on the "history of philosophy". Just because you are not interested in the lives and thoughts of past philosophers (as historical figures) doesn't mean someone else may not be. It's still a very vibrant part of formal study in philosophy to study the philosophic systems of thought of famous historic philosophers.

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A_Seagull
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Re: Shouldn't there be a "History of Philosophy" forum?

Post by A_Seagull » Sun May 08, 2016 3:37 am

mickthinks wrote:The thing with philosophy is that, unlike almost all other endeavours, we don't distinguish our past from our present much, if at all. The ancient greeks may have lived and taught a long time ago, but what they said is treated today as material to be grappeled with, contested, debated and dissected as if it had been said yesterday. I am sure the history of philosophy is of interest to historians, but to us philosophers, there is little or no interest in it as a separate study. I reckon there's nothing one could say about any of the ideas of the old philosophers which can't be said under the appropriate contemporary headings of Ethics, Epistemology, Aesthetics, Religion etc.

Put simply, it's a mistake to imagine just because you can think of a forum heading we don't have, that there must be a need for it.
Well, that is one perspective.

For myself I think all philosophy needs to be put into the context in which it was created. And also upon the philosophy that predated it.

And also I think modern arguments of the form " Socrates said this " or "Kant said that" are just ridiculous. If someone cannot argue philosophy from their own understanding of the issues and with regard to the modern world, they have no right to call themselves a philosopher.

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Gary Childress
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Re: Shouldn't there be a "History of Philosophy" forum?

Post by Gary Childress » Sun May 08, 2016 4:47 am

A_Seagull wrote:
mickthinks wrote:The thing with philosophy is that, unlike almost all other endeavours, we don't distinguish our past from our present much, if at all. The ancient greeks may have lived and taught a long time ago, but what they said is treated today as material to be grappeled with, contested, debated and dissected as if it had been said yesterday. I am sure the history of philosophy is of interest to historians, but to us philosophers, there is little or no interest in it as a separate study. I reckon there's nothing one could say about any of the ideas of the old philosophers which can't be said under the appropriate contemporary headings of Ethics, Epistemology, Aesthetics, Religion etc.

Put simply, it's a mistake to imagine just because you can think of a forum heading we don't have, that there must be a need for it.
Well, that is one perspective.

For myself I think all philosophy needs to be put into the context in which it was created. And also upon the philosophy that predated it.

And also I think modern arguments of the form " Socrates said this " or "Kant said that" are just ridiculous. If someone cannot argue philosophy from their own understanding of the issues and with regard to the modern world, they have no right to call themselves a philosopher.
History of philosophy is probably mostly an idle fascination (you could maybe say the same about some branches of philosophy such as aesthetics as well) but it is sometimes interesting to follow patterns that emerge and see old ideas occasionally rehashed in new fashion. However, some philosophers I think do have a certain timeless quality about them. Socrates is one. I think Socrates (as he is portrayed by Plato) really takes on an almost Christ-like quality in some respects. As with any good role model, I sometimes find myself wondering things like, "what would Socrates do in this situation."

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Re: Shouldn't there be a "History of Philosophy" forum?

Post by Dalek Prime » Sat May 14, 2016 3:27 am

History of Philosophy forum? Why would anyone want to outline the history of, mostly, ill-conceived ideas? I'm not going to waste my breath saying who is right, but ultimately, someone has to be. And the rest of philosophy either leads to that, or wastes our time.... *Blah!*

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Gary Childress
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Re: Shouldn't there be a "History of Philosophy" forum?

Post by Gary Childress » Sat May 14, 2016 8:41 pm

Dalek Prime wrote:History of Philosophy forum? Why would anyone want to outline the history of, mostly, ill-conceived ideas? I'm not going to waste my breath saying who is right, but ultimately, someone has to be. And the rest of philosophy either leads to that, or wastes our time.... *Blah!*
So should human beings not bother with studying their history because history has so much imperfection in it? Should astronomy students be oblivious to the history of their own discipline? Are all the ideas of past philosophers "ill-conceived"? Of course the answer to the last question would require one to actually study the history of philosophy in order to find out. I do question when university curriculums place specific requirements upon students to study things they may not be interested in but there may also be those who are genuinely interested in those things.

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Re: Shouldn't there be a "History of Philosophy" forum?

Post by mickthinks » Sat May 14, 2016 10:02 pm

Gary Childress wrote: Of course the answer to the last question [Are all the ideas of past philosophers "ill-conceived"?} would require one to actually study the history of philosophy in order to find out.
No it wouldn't. It merely requires philosophical examination and criticism of those ideas, which can be carried out in one of our existing sub-forums.

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Gary Childress
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Re: Shouldn't there be a "History of Philosophy" forum?

Post by Gary Childress » Sat May 14, 2016 10:13 pm

mickthinks wrote:
Gary Childress wrote: Of course the answer to the last question [Are all the ideas of past philosophers "ill-conceived"?} would require one to actually study the history of philosophy in order to find out.
No it wouldn't. It merely requires philosophical examination and criticism of those ideas, which can be carried out in one of our existing sub-forums.
You win. I'm not going to argue any further.

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Re: Shouldn't there be a "History of Philosophy" forum?

Post by Dalek Prime » Sat May 14, 2016 11:32 pm

Gary Childress wrote:
Dalek Prime wrote:History of Philosophy forum? Why would anyone want to outline the history of, mostly, ill-conceived ideas? I'm not going to waste my breath saying who is right, but ultimately, someone has to be. And the rest of philosophy either leads to that, or wastes our time.... *Blah!*
So should human beings not bother with studying their history because history has so much imperfection in it? Should astronomy students be oblivious to the history of their own discipline? Are all the ideas of past philosophers "ill-conceived"? Of course the answer to the last question would require one to actually study the history of philosophy in order to find out. I do question when university curriculums place specific requirements upon students to study things they may not be interested in but there may also be those who are genuinely interested in those things.
And if they are wrong? The ideas, that is? Should physicists study aether, because it was a big part of the past? Should biologists study homunculi?

Now Gary, I am big on history, so to suggest I'm saying 'don't study the past', as you suggest I'm doing, is silly. But to study that which, I will repeat, does not lead to truth, is still just a waste. And there is a truth out there, or in here, that we may find either unpalatable or camoflauged. But most here, I believe, are hear to argue minutiae and irrelevancies, instead of staring it down, or finding it.

Anyways, please don't suggest again that I am arguing for anti-intellectualism, just because it doesn't fit your interests.

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Gary Childress
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Re: Shouldn't there be a "History of Philosophy" forum?

Post by Gary Childress » Sat May 14, 2016 11:42 pm

Dalek Prime wrote:
Gary Childress wrote:
Dalek Prime wrote:History of Philosophy forum? Why would anyone want to outline the history of, mostly, ill-conceived ideas? I'm not going to waste my breath saying who is right, but ultimately, someone has to be. And the rest of philosophy either leads to that, or wastes our time.... *Blah!*
So should human beings not bother with studying their history because history has so much imperfection in it? Should astronomy students be oblivious to the history of their own discipline? Are all the ideas of past philosophers "ill-conceived"? Of course the answer to the last question would require one to actually study the history of philosophy in order to find out. I do question when university curriculums place specific requirements upon students to study things they may not be interested in but there may also be those who are genuinely interested in those things.
And if they are wrong? The ideas, that is? Should physicists study aether, because it was a big part of the past? Should biologists study homunculi?

Now Gary, I am big on history, so to suggest I'm saying 'don't study the past', as you suggest I'm doing, is silly. But to study that which, I will repeat, does not lead to truth, is still just a waste. And there is a truth out there, or in here, that we may find either unpalatable or camoflauged. But most here, I believe, are hear to argue minutiae and irrelevancies, instead of staring it down, or finding it.

Anyways, please don't suggest again that I am arguing for anti-intellectualism, just because it doesn't fit your interests.
I never said you are arguing for "anti-intellectualism" in the first place. That is a straw man. I'm merely saying that history of philosophy is interesting to some of us, however there really isn't a forum dedicated to it here. Everything has to be couched in terms of the subjects of the existing forums or else posted under the "general forum".

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Re: Shouldn't there be a "History of Philosophy" forum?

Post by Dalek Prime » Sat May 14, 2016 11:52 pm

Yeah. You never said it, but it felt implied. And if I feel it, then I dont feel it right for you to claim I raised a straw man. Anyways, I'll accept you didn't. I still stand by what I said.

So okay, you have interests there. Good. But whilst you are discussing it here, it could be raised in a thread, instead. Or in the book club, where it's discussed all the time.

Have you asked PN about it, directly?

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Re: Shouldn't there be a "History of Philosophy" forum?

Post by Gary Childress » Sat May 14, 2016 11:58 pm

Dalek Prime wrote:Yeah. You never said it, but it felt implied. And if I feel it, then I dont feel it right for you to claim I raised a straw man. Anyways, I'll accept you didn't. I still stand by what I said.

So okay, you have interests there. Good. But whilst you are discussing it here, it could be raised in a thread, instead. Or in the book club, where it's discussed all the time.

Have you asked PN about it, directly?
I can assure you there was no intention to "imply" such either. I haven't asked PN directly because I figured I ought to see what other users of the forum thought first. Hence the poll.

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