Philosophy Now Forum

Whether you "think" X or Y is right or wrong has zero impact on what God knows is actually right or wrong in a given situation. And what you say God knows about right or wrong has zero impact on what I think is right or wrong. Nobody has to be concerned about what you think is right or wr...

I'm gratified, actually. Talking with you has exposed to me the right route for debunking Subjectivism. And that, for me, has been the whole value of the debate in the first place: to improve our mutual understanding of the situation. We can both see Subjectivism's Achilles heel clearly. I'm quite ...

Because it means there's an independent Center of meaning. Things are right and wrong not because people think they are, but because they actually are, in their relation to the Center. That makes objectivity possible. Absent God as the Center, there's nothing one can invent that can substitute and ...

Actually, belief in Subjectivism won't change any facts. That's the truth. And now it's obvious you aren't really a Subjectivist at all. That should please you. 🙂 I'm gratified, actually. Talking with you has exposed to me the right route for debunking Subjectivism. And that, for me, has been the w...

Easy. Then all morality is fake. Nihilism follows. I don't see what meaning God gives to anything. Because it means there's an independent Center of meaning. Things are right and wrong not because people think they are, but because they actually are, in their relation to the Center. That makes obje...

If everybody does it, then everybody knows Subjectivism is false. They just don't perhaps know WHY it is false. But they know. And even if they can't say, they ACT as if it's false, anyway. It doesn't matter what you say, it won't change anything. Actually, belief in Subjectivism won't change any f...

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2024 10:20 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2024 10:12 pm Or what if there is no God at all? Then what?

Easy. Then all morality is fake. Nihilism follows.

I don't see what meaning God gives to anything.

I think morality is objective. That means it exists independent of your assessment. Right will be right, even when you don't know it; and wrong will be wrong, whether you know it or not. But your appeal to Moral Objectivity is derived from your desire to impose your own moral intuitions on others, ...

You just can't help yourself, can you? You are a Moral Objectivist, even while pleading you're not. Okay, so where do you suppose I'm getting my objective morality from? I think morality is objective. That means it exists independent of your assessment. Right will be right, even when you don't know...

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2024 7:55 pm You just can't help yourself, can you? You are a Moral Objectivist, even while pleading you're not.

Okay, so where do you suppose I'm getting my objective morality from?

It has to be one or the other. There's no third option. So which is it? Just obnoxious. Are you saying only "I feel obnoxiousness," or "He IS obnoxious"? Both. I think I have made my view perfectly clear. You think wrongly. So you are still uncertain about my opinion on Trump? Y...

Objectively "obnoxious," or only "subjectively"? Just obnoxious. It has to be one or the other. There's no third option. So which is it? Just obnoxious. And not even willing to have your opinion known, it would seem. Quite the contrary: I'm not renowned for my reticence, as you ...

I didn't say, either way. But it's not relevant. You're a Subjectivist. You say you believe that morality is made up by the various "subjects" who hold to it. So what's your evidence that Trump does not hold up to the subjective morality he believes in? Have you become a mind-reader latel...

Be specific: what has he done, as president of the US, that I should be objecting to? If you don't object to him as a human being, then you aren't really going to understand my objections to him. I didn't say, either way. But it's not relevant. You're a Subjectivist. You say you believe that morali...

What do you think that is? What's he for, that I should be against? Well, knowing your views on subjective morality, I would have expected you to take a very dim view of people with absolutely no morality. Be specific: what has he done, as president of the US, that I should be objecting to? If you ...